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Would LOVe to be on contact with parents from ONTARIO, on this forum.

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Serenia, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. Serenia

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    The reason he is at camp is because I do not want him to spend the entire summer at home on the computer all day every day - which is what he did last year!! It just so happened that the diagnoses was made a few days after I got him registered at camp - so yes I am dealing with 2 things at the asme time - but I have the support team at sick kids hospital and can call, email or page them when I need to. They have been wonderful so far.

    And yes it is a REGULAR camp.

    My son gets his insulin shots at home (rapid and NPH at breakfast, rapid at dinner and NPH at bedtime). The only thing he has at camp is a finger prick and a teacher does that at lunch time. The teacher has a meter. They know the criteria. If the number is below 4, then he gets a juice box, wait 10-15 minutes and then another prick. Because this camp has more sports that usual, he does tend to go low - but we are lowering the insulin to balance the exercise.

    Right now, today, my son is at home with cough, cold, runny nose and sore throat. Insulin amounts have to be adjusted for that since he is not eating very well right now. He has a sore throat and cant eat a granola bar for a snack. So he has freezies. :)

    I hope that answers all your questions. :)
     
  2. Serenia

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    Yes I do. I just dont continue them all. Some of them I havent touched for a few years...
     
  3. Serenia

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    Since I am the OP - I was told by sick kids (my diabetes educator) that they use the NPH to allow young children to get insulin during the day at school without having to be injected while they are at school.

    But when the kids are older - 12-14 and in middle or high school - Sick kids like to removed the NPH, and get the kid onto a pump so that they have the 24 hour insulin and then bolus the rapid (fast acting) insulin at meals and snack times. That would be the ideal regime But this does not work for kids younger than 12 who are not ready for that responsiblity.

    Why is injecting peaking insulin at bedtime a bad thing? We are NOT currently using Lantus (which I assume is the 24 hours insulin). Right now we are using only short acting and intermediate acting insulin.
     
  4. MomofSweetOne

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    Peaking insulin given at bedtime is a concern because of the potential for a very serious low during the night when the kids are much less likely to feel their lows (my daughter feels lows during the day, but not while asleep). As parents, we just can't check non-stop, and even in two hours, a lot can happen. My dad found my sibling seizing in the middle of the night. Post-glucagon BG was 50. That's incredibly frightening to me. I've chosen to have my daughter wear a CGM because the nighttime risks are just too great.
     
  5. danismom79

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    We had the exact same regimen in the beginning, and my daughter also went to a regular camp a couple of months after dx. She didn't like anyone else giving her shots, and we did well with this regimen. It wasn't forced upon us - it was what made sense for us, our schedule, and my daughter's feelings at the time. It doesn't make us, or anyone else who uses NPH, irresponsible or abusive.

    Now, with that said, you do have to be careful and vigilant when you give NPH at bedtime because of that peak. My daughter had to have a bedtime snack, unless she was high and I decided to skip it and monitor her closely.

    I think that same summer (or the next, I really can't remember anymore), we introduced Levemir as another basal. I gave the Levemir at bedtime to get rid of that overnight peak. I also gave it in the morning, because the more you adjust NPH, the more unpredictable it gets. I liked to keep the NPH at a set dose that would still cover lunch, but not be so...weird....at random times.

    My concern for you and your son is that in the beginning of this thread, you didn't seem to take the threat of a severe low as seriously as I think you should. BG does NOT have to get to zero for something tragic to happen. Lows should be treated promptly and appropriately.

    Also, re: pumping - babies have pumps. A child does not have to reach the magical age of 12 to be able to pump, and having a pump does not mean a child is solely responsible for its own care. My daughter started at 10, is now 13, and I *still* have to remind her to check when she wakes up, before she goes to bed, answer questions she has about bolusing and everything else that comes with pumping.

    ETA: The older insulins like NPH and Regular (which we also used) can be extremely useful if you know how to use them. The problem is that most people don't get a thorough education on how they work and end up hating them. But I was basically "pumping" before we started pumping. NPH and R were like combo boluses for my daughter, and I kept them on hand even after we went to a basal/bolus regimen. They worked nicely for things like Chinese food, mac & cheese, burgers & fries. Anything that we combo for on the pump, I used NPH and R for on MDI.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  6. Serenia

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    At the time my son was diagnosed (mid June), school was still in session - he was Dx'd 2 weeks before the end of the school year - so this schedule made sense for us. We have continued the same schedule for the summer.

    He hates needles and has trouble poking himself, so right now I am doing all finger pricks and injections - except the lunchtime prick that the camp teacher gives.

    This is why I beleive it will be a while before we move to a pump - because my son needs to mature and learn to accept that 1 - he has to get used to needles and he has to be able to poke himself with needles before he is ready for a pump.


    My son literally easts every 2 hours. He has has breakfast, lunch and dinner and 4 snacks - morning snack, 2 snacks during the afternoon and a bedtime snack. He has only ever had 1 low at night and even then he knew enough to get up and tell me so that we could test and rectify it. Most nights, with his carbs from the snack and the NPH he gets at bedtime, his night time sleep is covered and his morning BG number is good.


    I treat all lows promptly and appropriately, thank you. Sometimes my son tells me he is shakey, and his number turns out to be good. He just wants to have an extra drink. I like that I can use the meter to test any time he says he is feeling shakey. Sometimes it will be a real low, and other times he is just trying to get extra food.

    Every child is different. Some are more mature than others. I am not saying that my son will switch to a pump when he's 12. It depends on how he feels about taking responsibility. I do plan on having him be on a pump before he starts high school - as the high school he will attend is so much further away from home than the elementary school. So he will have to be more responsible for his diabetes by the time he starts High School.

    That is the freedom of the pump - to be able to bolus extra for meals like that. Right now if we want to got Macdonalds or to the movies, I have to adjust the insulin to cover it. Usually I adjust the next insulin shot after or at the time of eating. We can never do Macdonalds as a snack. They have far too many carbs for that. It always has to be at dinner so a slight adjustment to the dinner time rapid shot works well.
     
  7. danismom79

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    I will just say this - my daughter has only felt 1 low in her sleep, and it was not while she was on NPH. I caught her in the 40s on a night I hadn't even planned to check. Also, her ability to feel her lows at all has come and gone over the years. She's felt perfectly fine in the 30s.

    This
    and this
    is why I am concerned.
     
  8. sooz

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    Sometimes the kids can feel shaky because they are dropping fast, it is unfair to assume it is because he wants more food. If he wants more food, he should be allowed to have it. If you can't give him carbs figure out some non carb snacks and drinks. I think people are waiting for you to acknowledge that diabetes is a dangerous, sometimes deadly disease. I know I am.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  9. nanhsot

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    I just want to make sure you know there is another option besides moving to pump...MDI with novolog and long acting (lantus or levimir) that does allow a child to eat whenever they want, you don't have to wait until the next shot to adjust, you give a shot for whatever, whenever they eat.

    Pumps are great, but I am not sure you fully realize all your options. Some people never go to pump yet eat whatever and whenever they want, just covering carbs with insulin, no set amount of carbs or scheduled snacks or whatever. You can stay on shots forever if that's what you want and eat a more normal pattern. The rigidness of the regimin it sounds like you are on is going to lead to burnout, or for my son it definitely would. Sometimes he eats 20 minutes after a meal, and sometimes he goes hours without food, just like before diagnosis actually! Your son CAN eat at McDonald's again, and I think you are setting him up for rebellion if you continue to make it seem as if he cannot.

    From what I'm reading you write, it seems that you believe you must go to pump to be able to do that and I wanted to make sure you understood that's not true. It does not solve the issue of schools not being much help though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  10. Christopher

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    Honestly, the OP doesn't have to acknowledge anything to you or anyone else here.

    She has a very newly dx child and I am sure is still making her way in this new world.

    Compassion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  11. KatieSue

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    If I'm reading correctly, and understanding all the other posts from Canadians, there is no one at the school who will give shots or I'm assuming bolus from a pump. So it seems like the method she's using works well since her son does not give his own shots yet. I'm sure eventually he'll feel comfortable giving shots and work into a less regimented regime.

    If the school won't give shots, the child doesn't do it yet and the parent can't be available to run to the school to do it this seems like a good solution for the time being.
     
  12. sooz

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    Compassion sometimes means helping people face reality...a reality that is crucial for her son's survival. I am concerned for her son. She does not seem to understand some basic concepts. She doesn't seem like she is still making her way in a new world, she put him in a regular camp right after Dx to get him out of the house. She denies him food when he is feeling shaky. She thinks you can wait 30 min after her child goes into a coma from a low before getting help and nothing bad will happen. You think it is more compassionate to let her think that is normative behavior? All I am asking is for her to give some acknowledgment of the responses she has received from multiple posters. Posters who want to help her understand reality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  13. Christopher

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    Wow. And Swellman criticized ME for being judgmental....:eek:
     
  14. nanhsot

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    Yes, that's my take on it as well, the school situation is pretty well limiting the options they have right now.

    I just wanted to make sure she was fully informed on what all the choices were. MDI with novolog/lantus is just as valid an option as pump and allows the child to eat a more normal way. It may well be that she is fully aware of this and if so, then just ignore me! It just seemed from reading that she was telling her son he couldn't eat at certain places because of diabetes...and that's not really true, he can't eat freely because of the current insulin regimen.

    I just think it's important to be fully informed. To the OP: I know that right now there is so much to learn and do and hard to wade through all the information. In the beginning you must lean heavily on your medical team and follow their lead, and that's what you are doing. This is as it should be, for now. Soon enough you'll feel educated enough to question and to push for changes, if changes are what are appropriate for your son.

    The school situation sounds frustrating for me personally, and it's something I would fight to change, but not knowing the system and how entrenched it is that may be an impossibility. Too bad, because schools shouldn't be able to influence medical decisions to such a large degree (spoken from a diehard homeschooler!).

    Good luck to you during this crazy and overwhelming time. Keep seeking information, keep an open mind, understand that while you need your medical team~~often the true voices of wisdom come from those in the trenches (that would be us, here!).
     
  15. sooz

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    That is what she said. She put him in camp to get him out of the house. I was only quoting her.

    QUOTE: Now that he is in camp this year - he has to get up and go out, Of course he was resistant to going to camp - I had a real struggle getting him there. But now that he is there, he has settled down and accepted that this is the way things will be.
     
  16. KatieSue

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    I don't understand at all any problem with putting him in a camp that's not specifically for diabetes. Lots of kids go to different summer programs that aren't specifically designed for diabetes. The staff are testing and keeping an eye on him. Personally I'd rather have my child at a camp being active with supervision than at home alone.
     
  17. sooz

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    Of course he shouldn't be home alone. I only brought that up because I know parents who struggle mightily with concern about sending their kids to camp after having d for years and yet here we have a brand newly dxd child going to camp a couple of weeks after he has begun treatment. To me, it goes hand in hand with not entirely understanding what can happen. It isn't even the fact of going to camp, it is the not worrying about it, or expressing concern. Of course going to camp is a good thing, but I certainly would not have been able to send my child there so soon after Dx without me going too.
     
  18. Christopher

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    So you want to force her to acknowledge she is worried and concerned to the level you expect her to be???? Bizarre.

    That is how YOU feel. Other people feel differently than you do and are OK with it. Try and look outside yourself and accept that each person does what they feel comfortable with and what makes sense for them.
     
  19. sooz

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    Bizarre to be concerned about her son's safety? I can live with you making that judgement of me in YOUR opinion. Just trying to send a wake up call for her son. Sorry if it offends you. Perhaps you can do a better job than I have done in explaining that if you don't treat a low your kid might die. Christopher, how about YOU looking outside yourself and accepting other people's opinions for once.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  20. caspi

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    With all due respect Sooz, you need to give this newly diagnosed parent a break! And if you are going to quote her, quote the entire comment, not take one sentence out of context...

    I commend the OP for pushing her child to go to camp. She did not want him sitting home all day long, which apparently he did last year. Quite frankly camp is no different than if a child is newly diagnosed and returns to school. You find a way to make it work.

    To the OP, there have been times when my son says he feels shaky and the # on the meter doesn't reflect a low. We always listen to his body and treat because more often than not, he's dropping fast. Just something else to consider. :cwds:
     

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