- advertisement -

What is your child's target range?

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Shopgirl2091, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    I am not sure if that is true. It may just be the ultra low-carb topic that gets people's fur up. There are probably people here who might be interested in general discussions about nutrition. I don't know.

    It is just tough with this disease because a lot of it revolves around food, and we each have our own way of dealing with it. For those of us with female children, especially teenage females, it is a very fine line we need to walk when dealing with food, weight, etc. Eating disorders are a very real consequence of not properly managing Type 1 diabetes and is something that is always in the back of my mind.
     
  2. DavidN

    DavidN Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    744
    Wth? Strangest most ill-informed post I've read in a long time. Btw, welcome to the board. A signature is always helpful.
     
  3. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Mertdawg,

    I'll be perfectly honest with you. What rubs me the wrong way is when you take promising ideas on low-carb diets and pass them off as facts. I consider myself pretty intelligent and able to digest information. I've also done a lor of reading, and low-carb is a promising idea, but FAR from all experts agree and there's a ton of fad around it. You try to lend it credibility by showing off your amazing knowledge in chemistry and metabolism. And while that's cool, I think a lot of us see it as us being schooled on nutrition. Keep in mind that there's a lot of very intelligent people here and we may not always need to be schooled.

    That being said, I enjoy chatting with you. Please stay and don't you dare blocking me! :)
     
  4. nebby3

    nebby3 Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    923
    Mertdawg -- I've been reading most of your posts and the related discussion. Against my better judgment I'll jump in and give my $0.02.
    You are clearly a scientific person and also an intelligent one who likes to take a problem and analyze it and find a solution. If there are lots of numbers involved, all the better. The problem is that this will only get you so far with D. You are getting a lot of reaction here when you talk about low carb foods and the GI of foods because we have all heard it so much. And we know it only goes so far. I agree we should learn what we can but as your child emerges from his honeymoon you'll learn that the theories don't hold up as well in the real world of T1. That doesn't mean it isn't good to know them. For most people I would say the more they can educate themselves on D and everything surrounding it (like GIs of various foods) the better. In your case it sounds like you are coming in to this more educated on a lot of these things than many of us will ever be. But even if you could take all those numbers and turn them into great bg levels (which I am skeptical of because I know how many variables there are in managing a kid with T1 and how few of them we can directly control), there are other considerations too. We need to balance the immediate danger of lows with the long term danger of highs. We also need to balance managing bg numbers with raising child -- that is, a person with their own wants and needs and desires. A compliant 9yo is a pretty nice thing to have. But they turn into teens. Their bodies go out of whack and they also want to do things their own way. They don't want to count carbs much less think about GIs or count fat and protein. What they want more than anything, is to go to a party with their friends, eat all the pizza they can handle and not have to think the word "carb" once. As parents we need to think about the health consequences but also the mental health consequences. Eating disorders are much more common among T1 kids because they have to spend so much of their lives focused on their diet. I guess what I'm trying to say is you are clearly a diligent, concerned parent who wants what's best for your kid. But while your carb counts and GIs may help, they are not going to fix all this. It's never going to be perfect. And please don't forget to think about the long term of not just how healthy your kid is but of how he will feel about himself, his life and his disease. Honestly, you sound like someone in a bit of a panic which is natural and I think we've all been there (I was there for 3 years I think). We all want to control our kids' lives to some extent, at least physically to ensure that they are and will be okay. You are a scientist so you automatically go for scientific solutions. They will no doubt help, but they won't solve everything. There is just too much involved. We need to learn as parents (all parents; it is just more obvious for parents of cwds) that we're not going to be able to control everything and we need to be able to let go to a certain extent. I would encourage all parents of cwds to ask "what's my kid's #?" less and "who is my kid becoming?" more.
     
  5. Michelle'sMom

    Michelle'sMom Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,432
    We were not taught to subtract fiber at dx. After learning about it later on my own, we gave it try. I didn't see any difference at all in postprandial numbers. Sometimes you can do everything right & still have crap numbers. Sometimes, you think you've totally blown it & have a lovely flat trend line that defies all logic. It is what it is. I spend enough time in the trenches just with the daily grind of T1. I'm not going to split hairs over something that, in the end, doesn't make that much difference. Believe it or not, some of us don't use caloriecount.com for carb counting. Some of us have the audacity to just eyeball the amount & just SWAG a bolus. Guess what? Our kids are doing just fine.

    My motherly intuition has served me well for almost 35 years of parenting, through 3 kids with various medical issues....all diagnosed only due my observation & diligence, & whole lot of luck...which continues. Practicing my "art" using my intuition has served my CWD very well. She's happy, healthy & as well-adjusted as any almost-17 yr old young woman living with T1 can be. There are many here who do the same thing every single day, & quite a few of them for more years than your son has been alive. You might consider putting your scientific ego on break, & pay attention to the real experts. There are quite a few here.

    I was applying a lot of the theories you've posted long before T1 came to live in our house. You asked questions. I gave my best attempts at answering. Sorry if they weren't to your scientific liking.
     
  6. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    I just sent my son into a 6 point/minute death spiral by not subtracting fibers. Thank God for Dexcom!
     
  7. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    ...and of course I panicked and over-comepensated and now his going up at the same rate! Gaaaaaaaaah!!! Why can't I get it right???????????

    [EDIT: OK, he leveled out at 158. Maybe I'm not the worst parent in the world after all... ]
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  8. wilf

    wilf Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    9,652
    This is worth printing and getting up on the wall. :cwds:
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    I would be really surprised if it was the fibers. I have never subtracted for fibers and it has never been a problem. But you never know.
     
  10. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    You're right. Some further investigation showed it had to do with the size of the pancakes we gave him. They were made from batter mix and we went by the serving size instead of weighing. Big mistake.

    We rounded up to one unit instead of down to half a unit. It's amazing what a difference it makes when his in honeymoon.
     
  11. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    I agree with most of this. I have the luxury to look at details and again I did not invent a dietary approach because my son developed diabetes. I came to a low/moderate carb approach on my own over many years, and in light of three generations of type II (supposedly) diabetes prior to me. I had already come to see protein and fat as food, and carbs as a small part of a meal that served a purpose in moderation but also resulted in the US heading toward 33% T2D, and was also the main culprit in CHD (rather than fat which got targeted by a socio-political agenda).

    Anyway, I am a little frantic primarily because my son has all normal blood sugar, 4 units a day, A1C under 6 and is growing for the first time in a year, is happy, and doing great in school and activities outside of school, and I don't know how, if I am worried now, I will handle it when he eventually comes up 110 in the morning or 150 at dinner time. I will lose sleep when that happens. My son is very optimistic. He was overjoyed after a week when he stopped feeling bad, and had an explanation for other issues. He told me that if he knew that he only had 4 minutes of testing and shots, and to watch for lows, and otherwise to do what he liked to do, he wouldn't have been so scared the first night.

    I want to stay out of forum discussions on nutrition because I don't have that kind of energy to take from my kids and put somewhere else. I will say that the points that I don't fully agree on are this:

    1) Maybe eating all the pizza you feel like IS an example of disordered eating.
    2) Maybe modifying your eating because you are in a social setting with peers is not psycho-socially healthy and
    3) Maybe seeing a balanced plate of food 3 times a day for 5 years before you are a teen can serve as positive modelling rather than something to rebel against

    maybe not. I was a rebellious kid who ate all the pizza I wanted and drank all that I wanted to in college and figured stuff out in my late 20s.

    I also worked as a high school chemistry and bio teacher for 12 years and I worked with 14-18 year old teens all day long and there are kids who are basically trained to look and see what everyone else is doing, and those who are self reliant.
     
  12. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    OK. I am only going to use this site though to get tips of management and maybe on how to cope. I need to spend less time, not more time obsessing anyway. I have the luxury of being available for my kids 24 hours a day and its better if I don't have some post on a forum in the back of my mind. Also, if I called 100-130 grams a day, the low carbers would laugh and the very low carbers would scoff.

    As a teacher I saw school lunches take on more starch in an attempt to get below the government's guidelines of a maximum of 30% fat. They ended up giving kids cinnamon rolls and mac and cheese and nacho and potato "bars" because 30% fat was considered unhealthy.

    And they promoted high omega-6 vegetable oils because they reduced the saturated fat content of meals. Everyone is different, but the FDA recommends 250 grams a day based on serving numbers and if you exclude their fat limit and protein guideline you are left with at least 400 grams on a 2500 calorie diet.

    Anyway, in my experience, we have been so brainwashed into thinking that dietary fat is bad that people rarely even see an option to a predominantly carb diet. I am not going to put out anything more speculative than that fat has been excessively demonized.
     
  13. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    I am not going to come back to this thread. If you want to PM me that's OK.

    I kind of want to start over and just have an off limits to nutritional discussions. I'm not saying that people shouldn't chat about food, but it is not where I will derive any benefit from this forum, and it is harmfully draining. That's all, if it doesn't help me I'm not going to do it.
     
  14. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    Yup. There's nothing quite like repeatedly telling (the dumb) folks how you are going to, "use" them to ensure you have their support and attention. Nice.
     
  15. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Isn't diabetes great? This morning, I gave him the exact same serving of pancakes but with 0.5U instead of 1U. This time, instead of going for a nose dive, I spiked to 240. Morning insulin resistance, I guess, but it goes to show what a moving target this is.
     
  16. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802


    Let me rephrase. If some forms of participation on this forum distract me from parenting I am going to avoid them. I benefit more from reading what other people have to say without the back-of-mind distraction of a possible confrontation over what people may view as controversial or insensitive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  17. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    I sometimes wonder if they body is not remembering what happened 24 hours before and responding in rhythm.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    I think this quote is very telling. Forget about all the low carb and nutritional stuff. I think this is the heart of the issue. You are feeling the same things that almost all of us have dealt with at some point, especially early on in the process. Maybe focusing on all the low-carb and nutritional stuff is a way for you to feel in control and to try and damp down your panicky feelings. Which is fine if that helps you (and doesn’t negatively affect your son). But there will come a day when you test your son and he is 350. It. Will. Happen. The way you handle that (and all the other out of range numbers) is extremely important because you are modeling for your son and he will take his cues from you. As for losing sleep, that is something that we all deal with, especially those of us who check their child’s bg several times a night.

    My humble suggestion is to spend time working through your feelings about your son having this disease, coming to terms (in your own time) with some of the realities of this disease, and trying to find a balance between despair and hope. What I think you will find is that you will go through a whole range of emotions and they will fluctuate daily, monthly, yearly.

    Good luck.
     
  19. sszyszkiewicz

    sszyszkiewicz Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Messages:
    842
    I want to second what Christopher said. You are going to see times where your son spikes to 400 and you will not know why. You will see times when the meter just says "LOW". You will do the exact same thing however many times in a row and have completely different outcomes. These things will happen, despite your advanced training, knowledge, intentions, and everything you did to prevent them from happening.

    D is semi-random. It will do what it does, and just about the only thing you can truly hang your hat on is that enough insulin will lower the number....at some point. Since we can only approximate the function of healthy islets, we cannot get that exquisite control they provide. With todays tools, we can stay in a decent range most of the time, and discover/remediate things when we are out of that range faster than ever before in human history. But that fined tuned control does not exist yet. Just fyi, as a way of level setting your expectations, all of the research going into the artificial pancreases/bionic pancreas, they are AVERAGING glucose numbers in the 140's. that's after whats likely 10's or hundreds of millions in research effort over the past decade.


    Having said that all is not hopeless, and you can indeed get into a rhythm, but I think you need to personally prepare yourself for semi-random. You seem to be enjoying a very strong honeymoon, which is *really* terrific. I hope it lasts a *very* long time.

    However, your perceived ability to control things is going to take a serious hit sooner or later. I think you have to mentally/emotionally prepare yourself for that reality.
     
  20. nebby3

    nebby3 Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    923
    ^^This

    IMO it's not that a lower carb approach and an intense focus on the nutritional side won't help with D but they won't fix it all. There will still be 20s and 400s. And of course you won't to avoid as much of the negative emotional impact on your kid as possible. There's a lot to balance and you are just at the beginning. But there will come a time when you see numbers like 150 and even 250 and don't bat an eye.
     

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice