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Warren Retreivers/Guardian Angel and DAD's

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by zakksmom, Jul 19, 2012.

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  1. zakksmom

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    We personally had a really bad experience with Dan and this organization- I figured Dan's time would come if he continued to do business the way that he did and sure enough karma did it's majic.

    http://www.theexaminer.com/stories/news/guardian-angel-owner-far-angelic

    A clarification note to everyone that there is a Guardian Angel Medical Alert Dog provider out of Fl that is not affilated with Guardian Angel Service Dogs that worked with Warren Retreivers. I have never had any experience with the Fl based provider-
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  2. Christopher

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    I admit I don't know all the details, but something seems fishy about the relationship between those two companies. And why would I want to pay him $20,000.00 for a dog that I will have to train myself?

    Buyer Beware, I guess.
     
  3. C6H12O6

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    Between the article and the comments this kind of puts the DAD industry in general in an unflattering light.
     
  4. Lee

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    Here is the original story - this family fundraiser about 80K for the dog and other stuff - they paid 20K for an untrained dog and then the owner of the DAD company took them to court for the other 60K - because I guess he needs it or something.

    I have to say I am so upset and disappointed. I looked at them when I was thinking about buying a new dog, and then when one of my new dogs showed signs of catching lows, I looked at their site for tips and such.

    I just don't get such outright greed.
    http://www.theexaminer.com/stories/news/service-dog-provider-puts-groves-family-alert
     
  5. sheeboo

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    I called Scott at Tidewater (he's the man who provided Zak's dog, I think): http://tidewaterk9.com/cares/ last month when we started thinking about the possibility of a DAD. What a conversation! We talked about all the various options and he felt that our best bet would be to self-train a puppy with his help if we wanted a full-time, completely predictable DAD.We talked for well over an hour and he suggested that our current dog is likely already aware of BG fluctuations.

    Sure enough, our pooch senses highs. Scott told me to look for specific behaviors (typical signs of dog anxiety like panting, yawning, etc). It's uncanny, really. If our dog is laying by our daughter panting without obvious reason and we check her, she is 200+. Time and time again.

    He has a video training service that includes as many one-on-one conversations as you need to sort through things. It's very affordable.

    We don't think our current dog will make a good service dog because he's so protective and grumbly when out in public, but I do think he has the potential to sense/alert to lows if we work with him. I've trained dogs in the past, and think that training a DAD with Scott's help may well be in our future.
     
  6. Christopher

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    I don't think anything is completely predictable, especially an animal. Nor are humans, devices, etc.


    I am not saying this is the case here, but I think it is very easy to make causal connections where there are none.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  7. KatieJane'smom

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    And so it begins....HSP, the sequal.
    I called it a long time ago. Unfortunately, I'm all to familiar with the pattern not to recognize it. The desperation, the greedy scam, all that money!, the embarrassment & dissapointment, the staunch supporters with their sincere outcries (until they, too, realize they've been scammed), the excruciatingly slow legal process, the acceptance to leave it all beh
    ind and start completely over. I'm so sorry for my many friends who are clients but I'll be here for you through this entire process. Afterall, I've lived it. Makes me sick.

    In case you haven't made the connection. Same guy that just won the new car voted on by all his clients:
    http://forums.childrenwithdiabetes.com/showthread.php?t=70715





     
  8. Lee

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    One of my standard poodles alerts her all the time, when high or low. He really does great. The best is when he barks at her on the trampoline, she now knows to get off and test. But, I do not think it is convenient for her to have a dog around her 24X7, especially one that is easily distracted by a ball (and yes - I spelled it in my head instead of saying it outloud - that is how trained I am!)
     
  9. sheeboo

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    Agree. 100%.

    But I think there is danger in (for lack of a better word, not to be insulting) amateur-trained service animals. There is a reason completely trained service dogs, K9s, bomb-squad, search and rescue....dogs are so expensive. It takes a loooong time, a lot of work, and a very, very special animal to do the job as well as possible. As someone said earlier, it isn't just that you need to animal to alert consistently, they also have to be extremely well trained for public spaces.

    It makes me nervous thinking about a half-way trained dog being responsible for a PWD's wellbeing, especially if that person doesn't feel their own lows. It also makes me nervous to think of how easy it is to slap a "service" vest on a dog and bring the animal into public spaces. I've seen some growly, grumbly service dogs in public places throughout the years who were likely anything but well-trained actual service animals.


    Yup. I agree with this too. At first, I thought that I was reaching for a connection, so when I noticed pooch sleeping near our daughter and Not panting, I'd test. No high readings. Now that she wears a Dexcom, it is very evident that he senses highs, without a doubt.

    Seems mostly oblivious to lows, though.
     
  10. sheeboo

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    Oh, and I meant to clarify that what I meant by "completely predictable" was a dog that acted like a working dog in public. Something our guy is not apt to do, regardless of training at this point.

    And, you are still right: nothing is ever 100%
    Although I've met some service dogs who come pretty close!
     
  11. Christopher

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    Understood, makes sense now. :cwds:
     
  12. sarahspins

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    I would have to agree here.. and not all dogs who enter traditional service dog programs make the cut there.. dogs who are too distractible or have other issues should never presented in public as service dogs... regardless of their ability to help someone, if they pose a danger or risk to the general public then they have no business being in public.

    Around where I live, people will just slap a vest on their pet and call them a service animal just so they can take them everywhere where "pets" aren't allowed.
     
  13. caspi

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    There have been a lot of red flags with this company. They are placing puppies as young as 16 weeks with families. There is no way these dogs are trained at such a young age. But there are those that are steadfast supporters, claiming, among other things, that their dogs can alert from up to 5-10 miles away. :confused:
     
  14. Lee

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    Warren Retrievers - the dogs that can smell blood sugar from the space station!
     
  15. swellman

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    Seriously?!? Is the 5-10 miles away an overstatement or a serious belief by someone?
     
  16. caspi

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    No, it was a serious belief. Mother took the dog for a walk while the kid was in school. She claims it started "alerting" - she called the school and the kid was high. Needless to say I didn't touch that post with a ten foot pole, lol. ;)
     
  17. Christopher

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    And underwater....
     
  18. dzirbel

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    I'm curious....so do they have 3 companies??? Guardian Angel Service Dogs, Diabetic Alert Dogs by Warren Retrievers and Warren Retrievers?? There are facebook pages for all of these.


    So is there anyone who has a good experience with a different company?? We are not looking but I was just wondering.
     
  19. KaseyK

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    Here's our story: I contacted Dan for info about the DAD program. He was nice, and explained things well to start, but couldnt answer the tough questions I had about any guarantee we had with the dog, contractual obligations and a preview of the actual contract we would be asked to sign. He invited me to his "current client" FB group that was obviously filled with his fans, as they were families waiting for their DADs to be delivered.

    Everyone was helpful, and I was msgd by some (including the mom of the article) about their deciet. I publicly asked the hard questions on the FB group about where the $ goes, contractual obligations, level of training of the puppy at delivery and overall satisfaction. Average response was people were really happy with their dogs. BUT IMO, its what you make of it. I spoke on the phone with a mom who has a 6 month old DAD from Dan who apprecaited the alerts, but not the training. From chewing to eating garbage and using the carpet as the bathroom....why the hell would we pay $20k for that? She said she works FT and has 3 kids and REALLY doesnt have the time for all the training the dog requires, but has done what she can to follow the trainers advice. So the $20k gets you what you put into it apparently.

    Plus, I was told our dog would be $24K. Why? Well, I couldnt get an answer. The unoffical deal is that you raise $8k a year for 3 years, but get the dog upfront. There's a trainer that visits every 90 days, and supposedly available online anytime. A few of the unhappy families said they could never get a hold of a trainer, and that the responsibility of them doing the training wasnt explained to them. I have to say it was made clear to me that WE would be doing the training guided by a professional trainer. The idea is that the scent impressions work better with a growing puppy, rather than a grown dog.

    I too talked to Scott as PP did and said there are many options, but he would never sell us an untrained dog.

    Its obviously a scam in that, these dogs dont NEED to cost $20k, and that Dan isnt doing this out of the kindness of his heart. But I think its also clear that many many familys are very happy with their DADs and believe their alerts are saving their kids lives. Once I told Dan I wasnt comfortable with the program details at this time, he unfriended me from the FB group that evening. I called him on it and he saaid the group is reserved for "current families" ..meaning people who are sending him $$
     
  20. caspi

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