advertisement

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Subtracting fiber

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by momofone, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. momofone

    momofone Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    206
    I just saw an interesting post in another thread that mentioned subtracting the fiber only if over 4g. I was told to subtract all fiber. Is this another YDMV or a "rule?"
     
  2. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    If it's a rule then we've been breaking it forever. We subtract all fiber.

    My only defense is that it is my understanding that dietary fiber can't be converted into glycogen and so it shouldn't have any effect. If there is an understood mechanism that describes how dietary fiber can be converted to glycogen then I would love to see it. I do not feel, however, that people could have very differing mechanisms as far as fiber is concerned.

    So, in my opinion, unless there's a known mechanism I haven't heard about, the dietary fiber can't contribute to BG.

    It might very well be that it normally makes very little difference if you do or don't unless you have a sensitive IC ratio.

    $0.02
     
  3. Jacob'sDad

    Jacob'sDad Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,803
    Maybe the mechanism is that if fiber slows digestion then there's the potential for a higher percentage of the carbs to be absorbed. So in that way it could indirectly affect BG.

    That being said, I still always subtract all the fiber. It's more habit than anything else.
     
  4. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    Perhaps I should have been more clear in saying how that mechanism might affect individuals differently.
     
  5. Ali

    Ali Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,191
    I do not disagree with any of the advice given but just a note that I have never subtracted any fiber and all that means is that over time my basal and bolus numbers reflect that fact. I tend to eat very much the same type of food day after day. Also i tend to not bother to bolus for vegies unless it is an obvious sugar like corn or cooked pumpkin or potatoes. I have considered accounting for fiber and then just readjusting all my working numbers just in case I might see better numbers, have just been too lazy to do it yet.:p:)ali
     
  6. Jordansmom

    Jordansmom Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,172
    We were taught to subtract half the fiber only if the fiber is over 5 grams. I remember reading an article at dx about this being the "new" official recommendation around 2008. It was a change in the previous position from subtracting all fiber.

    From the ADA "If a food has 5 grams or more fiber in a serving, subtract half the fiber grams from the total grams of carbohydrate for a more accurate estimate of the carbohydrate content."

    But there is a lot of controversy over this and different "experts" give conflicting advice.
     
  7. maciasfamily

    maciasfamily Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    235
    We were told the same thing. To be honest though, I rarely pay attn to the fiber because most of what he eats isn't high on fiber.
     
  8. momofone

    momofone Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    206
    Very interesting.... the plot thickens ;)
     
  9. danismom79

    danismom79 Approved members

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    5,300
    That's what we were told as well (same for sugar alcohols).

    I don't subtract fiber from most foods. However, I don't even count veggies, except starches, so in a roundabout way I guess I do consider the fiber there.
     
  10. MomofSweetOne

    MomofSweetOne Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,675
    We weren't taught to subtract fiber at all. After we took the Type1University classes, I asked our endo about it. She said they don't teach it because the amount of information at diagnosis is overwhelming already and that for the typical American diet, there isn't that much fiber. She told me that if we did start, we would see even better control that we had. I took the plunge, adjusted the bolus ratios, and she was right.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,736
    In the 5+ years I have been doing this I have never subtracted fiber, except as a test to see if it made a difference in her BG numbers. It didn't make a bit of difference, so I don't bother with it. Just my 2 cents.
     
  12. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    Yet, you don't add for lo/no carb foods that are high in fiber either or do you?

    EDIT: Lettuce, for example?
     
  13. StillMamamia

    StillMamamia Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    13,195
    We never subtract for fiber. But since we do consider what type of food/meal it is, then we adjust the dosage and the type of bolus, so I guess we sorta kinda subtract without actually thinking we are subtracting.:eek: Whaaat?? No, we don't think "hey, let's take x off because it has x g of fiber." We just think "ok, this is a slow/fast digesting food, so better to dose this way."

    Got it?:eek:
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,736
    No, I don't add carbs to a food that has no carbs but has fiber. Why?
     
  15. JamieP

    JamieP Approved members

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Our Endo is at the DRI and we were taught to subtract 1/2 the fiber IF total fiber is >= 5g AND to subtract 1/2 of sugar alcohols. The diabetes educator in the hospital did not tell us and when I asked, she reluctantly gave me the same formula that I later got from the DRI. She didn't want to discuss for the same reasons someone else mentioned- they don't want to overwhelm us with too much info. Also, on the point of adding carbs to low fiber foods, I have actually been told to do that for potatoes. Not because of no fiber, but because of the crazy high glycemic index. Hope this helps!
     
  16. jakdmm

    jakdmm Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    When my daughter was diagnosed in February 2011, we were told to subtract all fiber and sugar alcohol. In our follow-up appointment in April 2011, we were told that we had been given old guidelines and we were to deduct one-half fiber and sugar alcohol if over 5 grams. Since we were new to diabetes, we followed doctor's orders. However, I cannot say that we noticed a difference in BGs.
     
  17. hawkeyegirl

    hawkeyegirl Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    13,151
    My son often eats 100 carbs at a single meal. If his ratios were perfect, his basals were perfect, his correction factor perfect, his BG reading 100% accurate, AND our carb count was 100% perfect, maybe it would be worth the time and effort to figure out the fiber.

    As it stands, NONE of those things are perfect on any given day, and in my experience, counting fiber would just add one more imperfect variable. So no. We don't screw around with counting fiber and any effect of that just gets lost in the "background noise" that are all of the imperfect factors listed above.

    To add more food for thought, we don't count carbs in: carrots, peanut butter, spinich, cauliflower, ranch dressing, mustard, tomatoes, sugar snap peas, hummus, and all sorts of other low-carb foods. (I know this drives swellman crazy, LOL!) Doesn't make a darn bit of difference as far as I can tell. I suspect that we set our basal a tad too high, and it sort of takes care of those sorts of foods, but I don't give it a lot of thought. We have good a1cs with relatively low variability, so I'm not inclined to change anything up in that regard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  18. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    I'm just trying to understand the differing positions on this subject.

    I, for example, base my calculations on the assumption that dietary fiber isn't digestible and do not contribute to glucose production.

    If one doesn't subtract fiber I would have thought it was because one assumes that the fiber is digestible and does contribute to glucose production. I would have also thought that they felt the fiber in no carb vegetables also contributed and would have bolused for that.
     
  19. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    You're killing me :D

    So, if you had a dinner of carrots, peanut butter, spinach, cauliflower, ranch dressing, mustard, tomatoes, sugar snap peas and hummus you wouldn't bolus? I think I know you would because all of that would have an impact and it's a matter of scale in reference to the whole meal and I tend to agree.

    We, however, will have a large salad with all kinds of vegetables and will bolus 6 CHO for the dressing. :cwds:

    I guess it all depends on how much 1g of CHO raises one's BG (is there a name for that factor? There should be.) and if it's relatively low the fiber doesn't affect BGs from not counting fiber.

    In our case if we're off by 10g CHO that's going to have a significant impact.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,736
    OK. Maybe I am not the best person to base it on, because honestly, it just is not even on my radar as far as having an impact on her BG levels. If I thought it made a difference, I would probably spend the time to include it in my calcualtions, but it just doesn't. 1 or 2 or even 5 carbs one way or the other just doesn't register. However, that is just my experience, others may have a completely different experience.
     

Share This Page

advertisement