Discussion in 'Parents Off Topic' started by sooz, Aug 25, 2011.
I'm sure someone finds this funny, but I honestly have no idea what it means.
Cindy, thank you for your kind words. I found out during my struggles that I had a lot more strength than I ever thought I did. If it wasn't for my faith in God, I don't honestly know if I would have made it through.
What a great dialogue! Someone above quoted Romans 8:28 and that has been our rock through this dm1 storm and hubby's lay-off. Psalm 118:14 "The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation." Because He has been faithfully with us during the 2am site changes, tears and lonliness ... I will praise Him despite our circumstances. And as far as the cake baking goes... I will make cakes per God's instructions. I will trust and obey even when I don't understand they 'why's' of every ingredient. Because, when I choose to control ever facet of my life, bitterness creeps in and my cake is ruined... despite the extra chocolate. I know, because I've done it MY way many times. I am grateful for recipe books. I am grateful for the Bible.
Life is going to continue getting more and more uncertain (economy, natural disasters). I am not strong enough to cling to myself for answers, direction, comfort and encouragement. I need Christ. I need His truth, His wisdom and His grace. The more I surrender at the cross, the more free I am! Diabetes is at the foot of our cross. Diabetes has taught us how to live radically for Jesus by trusting in Him continuously. For that reason, I am grateful!
My cake has too many ingredients right now!
We have suffering because we live in a fallen, sinful world that is not the way God created it to be. Some of the suffering we endure is because the world is broken and nothing works exactly the way it was made to. I believe our kids' diabetes falls into this category. Other things we suffer because of poor choices we make. But I have hope that all things will be returned to their rightful state because of Christ's death and resurrection.
1 Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
This is what gets me through the 3am blood sugar checks.
Snort! Well said!
Seriously though, I believe that we all have incredible fountains of strength within us and when push comes to shove, we find the courage somewhere to overcome adversity and grow. Religious faith is one path of many available to us.
I haven't posted in eons, but I saw this and decided to make a statement. As far as D is concerned,
#1) I am grateful to the human beings that developed insulin.
There is so much suffering in the world, in our past, present, and there will be in the future. Therefore, I am also very grateful I live in a wonderful country and that I'm alive, and I have a wonderful family.
There are so many things to be grateful for, even the incredible miracle of life. Based on these things, I rarely grieve or "feel sorry for myself" because I have a child with D. I do feel bad for her, but I am grateful for every day that I am alive and that I have to share with the people I love, and a billion other miracles that we all take too much for granted. I don't think there are enough pages in a all the books in the world to count all the incredible miracles we should count ourselves very fortunate for.
See - I completely disagree with this. I just don't understand how 90% of us here - on this forum - see our lives as enduring suffering? Yes, some of us do, depending on time of diagnosis. We should be bowing down and kissing God's toes for allowing our children to be born in a time of insulin, of semi-accurate meters versus pee sticks, of needles that don't need to be sharpened, of pumps, of the ability to enjoy carbs...I mean seriously, my thankful list goes on and on and on.
I honestly do not believe in a vengeful God; rather, I believe in a kind and generous God that is striving to guide us towards a cure, towards better tools, towards survival. God never promised me roses or unicorns; however, he did promise me forgiveness. I do not suffer because I am fallen. My God is a forgiving God who has forgiven me for being fallen - that is why I was baptized, right?
How can we say or even hypothesize as to how the world that God created is supposed to run? The Bible doesn't say so? The Koran doesn't say so? All these books do is guide us towards enlightenment. It is not for us to know; rather, it is for us to find out at that time.
Anyway, I don't mean to quote your post and pick on you; rather, I want to defend my beliefs, which are thankful rather than suffering. But I understand each person has a different philosophy and we are welcome to believe as we wish.
I"m sure everyone is shaking their heads saying "what the heck does she mean?" but I totally get this and agree. But it's a very Catholic way of thinking and I'm not sure many other Christians understand it, or subscribe to it.
Yeah, I get the "what the heck is she talking about?" thing in many areas, tons of them totally unrelated to religion!
I'm Catholic so, yes, any post on religion from me is going to be from that angle and probably best understood by those from that tradition.
The first time I heard this coherently voiced, however, was from a born again Christian. He had a hard time with the idea of a God being all-knowing, all-present, all-powerful, and all-good in a world where there clearly was suffering.
I guess I just want to sympathize with those to whom that seems like an unresolvable contradiction and say that folks in my tradition have been brooding on it for 2011 years and have actually come up with some pretty good answers. Not that I can assume anyone would agree with them, just saying that if you think innocents suffering makes it hard to believe in a good and just God, you're not the first one, and that there are some answers out there if you're interested.
If you're not, okey dokey!
yeah, again..I totally agree.
I don't think we're that far apart in our thinking as you think.
Like you, I am thankful that I live in this country, in this period of history, at this point in the development of technology so that my kid's diabetes is the least interesting thing about him.
If you (and the rest of us) weren't "fallen", then why would you (and us) need God's forgiveness? I can't tell you that I know how the world was supposed to run, but even a curesy reading of the first three chapters of Genesis, clearly indicates that things changed for the worse. The theme of the Bible is God's redemption of the world and the children He created and the restoration of all of creation.
If I gave the impression that I am not thankful for God's blessing, mercy and grace, then I misrepresented myself. But as thankful as I am now, I look forward with great hope to the day when everything is renewed and there is "no more death or mourning or crying or pain".
Well, I think you can believe that god is "good" and there can still be suffering in the world. What I meant in my original post is that I have a hard time understanding the philosophy that god "chooses" who will suffer and who won't. That he hand picks certain people to give them cancer or diabetes. That is essentially what the OP posted and that makes absolutely no sense to me.
That's a tough nut, too. I think many solve it with the "clockmaker" idea that God set up the world and then went out for coffee or something and whatever happens, happens. I think that's one of the thoughts Lakeman was referring to, and my understanding is that this was a popular view with, for example, some of the Founding Fathers.
Personally, though, I believe in intricate and perpetual and omnipresent and omniscient involvement by God in every miniscule details of every human life all the time. (Which reminds me of the SNL sketch where Jesus gets a little tired of a character praying to him about every little thing. . . . . .maybe you can decide whether to starch the shirt on your own this time? ).
So the distinction of "allowing" vs. "choosing" someone getting cancer, etc. becomes more titchy for me I don't think God hand picks a person to get diabetes, per se. I think of it as God creating each person to be an entirely unique and extraordinary individual, and so each person's whole life will contain it's own unique characteristics, with certain things determined by that person's nature and other things determined by the choices that person makes freely. In other words, if that person's particular choices make it necessary that she have a particular challenge in her life for her to get to where she needs to be, that may determine that her child gets diabetes. It's not a punishment, but it's not entirely arbitrary either. And it has to somehow all fit together with the conditions that help my daughter become her true self, also, because God can't "use" her to help me get where I'm supposed to go, using people is wrong. It is not permitted to do even the smallest evil to gain a "greater good" for humans, so certainly God would not do evil to a child in order to achieve some greater good. In the end, what appears to us to be evil must in fact be in itself a good. Very hard to see, sometimes. The metaphor I have often seen is the surgeon one, where cutting into the body seems like an evil if we believe it is being done to harm, but we can see that in itself the cutting is a neutral act and it's actually a good when used to cut out a tumor, etc. But I hesitate to even restate those metaphors in the context of this forum because I can see folks finding them hurtful. The idea that somehow diabetes might be in fact a good thing for Selah because of who she specifically is is one that I can face, but I hate to suggest anyone else needs to feel that way for his or her own child. It seems in fact not just high-handed, but bordering on cruel, to "push" that point of view on someone who is watching his or her child suffer. So I apologize ahead if I've explained myself poorly to anyone here.
This is where a lot of people have issues with God.
This is my point of view. Take it or leave it as you see fit. But it didn't orginate with me and I believe it to be in concert with Scripture.
Time is just another of God's creations. And since He created Time, He is not bound by it and is above and separate from it. He can and does choose to move in it, but it is just another of His creations. I also believe that He chose to create everything knowing how everything would work out. The Apostle Paul refers to pre-knowing and predestination. I believe that God knew how history would play out for each one of us and He still chose to create the universe the way He had planned.
So, it is possible to say that He "handpicked" certain people, but I don't think that is accurate. He allowed it, because He wants us to choose to worship Him. But now I'm rushing up on the concept of "Free Will" and that's a whole other ball of wax.
I love this one!
I was just commenting on the scenario as the OP presented it, which was that god picks certain people to suffer but don't worry, he does it for a reason and everything is going to be wonderful in the end.
Just like the writers of Lost! I KNEW we'd eventually hit a point where I could understand something in this thread!
So Jacob gave my daughter diabetes? Wow....
Separate names with a comma.