Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by happyfamily, Jun 11, 2008.
I am SOOOOO using this on my pool Board tomorrow.
I just have to ask...
I did a little poking around today and couldn't get a clear answer. Is it common for blind, wheelchair bound, etc folks to pay such very high prices for their assistance dogs? I have given $$ to a guide dogs for the blind organization for years on the assumption, a pretty accurate assumption from what I know, that the dogs are GIVEN, not sold to the individuals who need them.
So, who knows? It this normally a fee based industry??
I see my horsie made a hit..LOL I have tons of different smilies
it would be best if all service dog organizations provided dogs to their client free. no doubt-but newer programs do not have the donor base to support the full cost of training.
It depends on the organization. Some make people pay around $16,000, for all kinds of disabilities, including mobility and autism spectrum disorders. Many of the organizations make the people w/ disabilities pay a nominal fee.
http://deltasociety.org can tell you more about some of the various organizations. Also, http://www.iaadp.org can tell you some more info too.
why is it that when I was looking at a service dog organization, it was about $900.. to me, the amount of money that HSP is even asking for is just completely wrong.. on so many different levels..
Thank you - I'll check out those sites :cwds:
Dogs 4 Diabetics which is an organization based out of Concord, CA does not charge a fee. They run the foundation solely on donations from private foundations. While still only placing dogs locally they have been receiving a lot of national press lately and I think they will be able to expand eventually. The company does not believe that people should have to pay to have the quality of life that a service dog provides.
In law a person can not gain beyond what they would have gained originally. In business law the way I understand it is if the company has resold the dog so to speak they must refund the money to the original buyer. They cannot doubly profit from the business transaction. The thing here is contracts. My opinion is I have never met a person who has had to pay for a service animal of any kind. Somehow I just do not feel right about this. No blind person pays for a seeing eye dog. My nephew's family did not pay for his seizure alert dog. With these families having to pay for these dogs something just doesn't smell right.
replying to this topic is a little intimidating - it seems that there are a LOT of erroneous statements being made all over the place. at this point, those of us who have had trouble with hsp are seeing our words lifted and used in other places . . .out of context or incomplete or with less that 100% accuracy. . .
a few 'disclaimers' :
I confess: I have not been very 'vocal' on this site; you will not find a lot of posts under my name.
I confess: I DID join the site for the purpose of adding to this particular topic.
having made those confessions, I'd like to add -
"Haileysmom" is my daughter. She signed on with hsp because of her younger sister, "flabbyabi'. Abi was in "training" in the Feb 08 class and Hailey (my granddaughter) was scheduled for the July 2008 class. Both 'flabbyabi' and 'haileysmom' are members of this community. I came here to join the conversation for 2 reasons:
1. I beleive that what has happened to abi (and others) should never happen to anyone. I think it would be wrong for us NOT to warn (those considering HSP) that it might not be what they expect. It is a lot of money - and so much hope and expectation - and such a desparate need for those chosing the service dog path. So, my heart cry was to give a warning in order to help others.
2. I came because I wanted to support the post made by my daughter, 'haileysmom'. it is a hot topic (obviously) and it is hard to watch your kids in this type of situation . . . it is so polarized and has somehow become so personal. There has been so much pain - so much. I just wanted to come in alongside my daughter to stand with her.
I followed the thread and respected the point made about 'new members' popping in with all this baggage. I thought it was a very valid point, so i laid low.
now, here i am again, LONGING to stand alongside haileysmom and clear up some misunderstandings that have been alleged by hsp supporters.
but, i know that whatever i write here is open to be lifted and misused.
so, i am left not knowing what to say- so . . .
~THANK YOU to all of you - a super community of support and info to my girls (and myself). Y'all are an amazing family and I am thankful that my kids have people like y'all when they are walking down a difficult road
~A consumer has a right to speak with the AG when they feel wronged by a company. From there, the AG makes a decision on what to do with that complaint. The decision is based on evidence to which even that consumer himself is not privvy. That consumer is only able to make a statement and leave it there. We are not responsible for the charges filed, the number of charges filed, the choice of to whom the charges were filed, etc.
~I do not beleive that it is possible for anyone here to have 'all the facts' pertaining to this case and the consumers who made it, so when 'someone' shares 'some of the facts' that they *think* they have, I'd suggest that there *might* be more to those facts than what has been stated.
I'm hesitant to say anything else.
I AM sorry for the confusion; my intent has NEVER been to bash others or another company. never. I am only trying to warn others of what I perceive as a potential danger and to seek justice where I feel my girls were wronged.
but, mostly - I am thankful to this community for the spirit of encouragement and knowledge and support you provide to my girls!!!!!
you are an outsider looking in, you have no idea what actually happened. Do you think that haileysmom asked for the money to be handed to her? NO she didn't all she wanted was for it to be given to a reputable organization. Which with a 501c3 that HSP claims to have that is totally legal. Instead she was offered 1/4 of what they had raised and ONLY if they signed a keep quiet agreement. I think her decision was for the greater good so she could warn others rather than being a sell out. She is simply trying to protect other families from a horrific experience.
These clients did not "pay" for their service dogs. They are instructed and encourage to fundraise so that it does not strap their families financially. There has been a handful of families since HSP started their business that personally sent in the full amount. All the other clients had donations on their behalf. When you are fundraising you are doing so by using a particular companies name. In this case Heaven Scent Paws. People are donating to Heaven Scent Paws not to the clients. Donations that are made to a 501 (c) 3 company such as Heaven Scent Paws are tax deductable and by laws it states that no goods or services were provided to the donator.
Diabetic Service dogs are relatively a "new" thing. There is no funding or special events to bring in money like Guiding eyes and such, therefore they do ask for donations. The amount that was requested for the Feb class was $6,000.00, some families choose to raise more but it was NOT required. The money covers more then just the service dog, it covers the training, the vet bills, the hotel stay for 3 weeks and all the accessories for the dog (vest(s), leashes, collars, implanted chip, etc.) and last but not least the actual cost of the dog if it is not donated or rescued. Some families even had their plane ticket and car rental paid for by HSP (by their own obmission).
Last but not least Heaven Scent Paws retains ownership of the Service Dog for a specific time to protect both parties. If the dog is being abused in the clients home they are able to remove the dog. If the client is not happy with the service the dog is giving HSP is able and will switch the dog out. HSP will not take a dog out of a home on a whim.
Thank you so much for sharing with us all. I can't imagine how hard this has been on your whole family. As a mother to stand (or in this case sit) by while people accuse your daughters of lying must be awful. As I said in the other post I don't personally know any of the families involved on either side of this issue...I tried in my earlier post to be very respectful and open to the idea that these folks weren't just here for damage control, seems obvious now that is whats going on.
Samantha pointed out that the money donated was donated to HSP and not to the familes....I think it is fair to say a person donating any amount expects that money to benefit the family they are donating for, if it does not it should be returned. While I understand that returning money to many different people would be time consuming it is the only right thing to do.
My husband recently went blind. We were told that *if* we were accepted into a guide dog program, that the dog would be free. We don't even have to give a donation. I do have to say that the criteria for a guide dog is a little strict, in that, one really has to prove that a guide dog would improve your quality of life--that you are not just getting a pet.
While we don't have one at this time, as it isn't necessary. We do see one coming in the near future, within the next five years. Also remember, I am in Texas, so other states may vary.
Hope this info helps.
this family (and others) raised money for a service dog, something that they didn't receive.. to have someone offer to give back less than a 1/4 of what was raised and told them they needed to keep quiet is W R O N G!!! you can try and explain that in any way you'd like, but is wrong, plain and simple! I believe they call that bribery..
and of course they ask for 'donations'.. they don't have to pay taxes on those donations, and according to you they aren't promising to give you any service or product.. you are clearly part of HSP.. this topic is getting old.. NO ONE knows exactly what went on except for the ring leader of HSP and the family/s that were screwed. I hope the families get their MONEY back and are able to use that DONATION towards a company that does what it promises it does..
those of you that are coming here solely to stand up for HSPs are not doing what you hoped you'd do.. actually I dislike HSPs even more now that these one time posters are showing up.. I'm sure they are directly from the company, or are very close to it.. damage control.. doesn't always do what you want it to do..
If you read the previous locked post you will find that Samantha actually volunteers full time for this organization - so she definitely has a vested interest in their good name!!!!
And this topic is so old and is only being rehashed again and again and AGAIN by people who feel the need to come here and point out how great this organization is when in reality, they have taken a massive amount of hard earned money from everyday people's pockets and not provided a service and not returned the money!
Here is the original post ~ Page 7 is where Samantha introduces herself as a volunteer.
You want to talk about HURT!
You have shared how "hurt" you and your family are because you feel that people who are unhappy with HSP are attacking you... well my family is one of the families that has been harmed by HSP and I have NEVER attacked you or anyone else... I don't even know who you are since you don't use your name anywhere. YOU HAVE A DOG THAT WORKS.... WE DON'T.... we too raised money for HSP... just like you... additionally we have proof in writing from Michelle Reinkemeyer herself of how HSP has slandered our families to the "happy HSP customers". Letters filled with vile and toxic lies in order to 'justify' her keeping the money that was raised for our children to receive D alert dogs. How is your having a D dog that works and us having ours ripped away "hurtful" to you? Our complaint isn't with or against you IN ANY WAY...just the company that made promises they didn't keep to our D children or our supporters.
You want to talk about hurt.... NO DOG & NO MONEY! Imagine if you will going home and trying to explain to your supporters... your family, friends & community that the money they gave on your child's behalf is GONE with nothing to show for it. Not only nothing to show for it.... now your child is also having severe blood sugar swings from the stress of having had Michelle Reinkemeyer lie about her family and rip the dogs leash directly out of her hands while she sobbed and begged "NO... please don't take my dog away" all this after we received documentation in the form of a "progress report" from the HSP trainer stating we had been performing all requested tasks during training with our dog in the "EXCELLENT" catagory.
You want to talk about HURT... My daughter's dog was ripped out of her hands the day before her 10th birthday (to which Michelle Reinkemeyer had made a big deal about how HSP was going to have a big birthday part for her during the classes).... Her 10th birthday was memorable all right.... we both spent the entire day crying. I have watched this child go through h*** over this, she still refuses to take down the pictures of her HSP dog in her room or throw away the little necklace she made at the HSP class with hearts on it that says "Brianna & Lindey best friends Forever".... Now she has the additional pain of seeing HER dog (the dog that HSP 'awarded' to her on the 2nd day of class and was supossed to be 'her service dog') in pictures all over the internet in the arms of another child who was in our class... so yes, our dog was sold twice! However we have now learned that since the family that has Lindey was involved in some form of "law enforcement" for their job they were apparently awarded a $1,000 kick back from HSP (from funds donated on their childs behalf).
You want to talk about HURT....One of the children involved in this mess has told his mother.... "HSP has hurt my heart way more than diabetes has hurt my body".... AND HE IS ONLY 10 YRS OLD..... how in the world can ANYONE justify that?
Are you honestly saying that if the experiences of all of these families was your expierence with HSP that you would just quitely sit by and continue to watch as it happened to more and more families????? If it were just one family I could understand an argument being made for them just being "unhappy" with everything..... But there are currently 18 families so far (that have been brave enough to file official complaints with the MO. AG) that have experienced this type of treatment from HSP... are you actually saying that this is O.K. ????
Are you honestly saying that if a family raised over $12,000 for HSP that it is o.k. for HSP to agree to only give $3,000 of it to another service dog organization for that family to receive a dog while HSP keeps the remaining $9,000 (and requires the family to sign a document that states they will not didscuss the situation with anyone) for doing absoslutely NOTHING for this family?????
Are you honestly saying that if a family has already gone through h*** with HSP with their first disaster of a dog, that they should be trusting enough to take on a second dog from HSP????
I guess I truly just don't understand how you getting an email with one of these families stories on it could have been so "traumatic" for you unless of course you actually had to stop for a brief moment and feel the pain that they and their D child have experienced... because that is truly traumatic.
You apparently were one of the "lucky" ones in the HSP class that received a dog that works for your child.... hear us when we say "WE ARE GLAD FOR YOU!" But why should it be a random "lottery" system as to who gets actual D alert dogs and who doesn't.... at least 50% of the last 2 HSP classes received dogs that can't & won't perform the intended task of alerting to low & high blood sugars, are agressive or fearful or no dog at all.......... how is this O.K. by any standard ??????????
Yes, I do volunteer for Heaven Scent Paws. I beleive in the program and they have done so much for our family and others that this is all very upsetting. I am sorry if you feel that this is getting old, but my son's service dog is his cure. I am sure you would also stand by a company that gave your child another chance at living a better and healtier life. My son and I were in this past Feb 2008 class and at that time we had NO affiliation / association with HSP, it wasn't until we got home that I offered my time to them. I am NOT paid so what ever happens with HSP will not affect us financially. Money is always a touchy subject no matter what and the legal system will handle it accordingly.
My son was diagnosed at 16months old with type 1 diabetes, he will be 8 this November. He has had numerous complications due to his diabetes the most recent is an epileptic disorder. I will stand by what our family believes is right and for us it is HSP. The "HSP supporters" as you call them get slammed for standing up for a company we believe in. I will no longer post on the site as it only seems for those who agree with each other and since I am not agreeing with your longtime members I am considered an outcast.
I wish the best to ALL DIABETICS as this is a terriable disease to battle and no matter how you feel regarding HSP we ALL have this in common.
This is a sad situation for ALL those involved.
I KNOW.... lets lock this thread!
No kidding. What is being accomplished here, anyway? Basically, it's all a bunch of he said/she said, and I can't figure out who did what to who, when.
Separate names with a comma.