- advertisement -

LCHF diet

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by suej, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. suej

    suej Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    172
    Alan, Michelle'sMum and Ali, if I was not thousands of kilometers away on the southern tip of Africa I would suggest we all met up for salmon for lunch :)( and perhaps to share what our kids eat on a day to day basis just for more ideas). And Alan, I so agree with you - I think what I am trying to journey towards is a "moderate" way of eating, a sustainable lifestyle that will also make D slightly less spikey.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    Just curious where you got this information? I do realize that most fish have some levels of mercury, but I was under the impression that different types of fish have different levels of mercury in them. So there are low, medium and high levels, depending on the type of fish. I think saying that "most fish is high in mercury" gives a false impression to people who may not be aware of the facts.
     
  3. Megnyc

    Megnyc Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,373
    We eat a ton of salmon. I personally don't really worry a lot about the mercury in salmon. My parents always bought the wild caught Alaskan/Pacific salmon since it is super low in mercury but I just buy the wild caught Atlantic kind since it is a lot cheaper where I live. We eat it at least 2-3x a week. I hate the fishy taste but I think of every fish out there salmon is one of the least "fishy." I find that having a slightly sweet glaze tastes best. I think the recipes I use range from 10-16g carbs per piece of salmon. I'm not sure if that is too high carb for you guys but I go heavy on the glaze and I am sure you can reduce it if you want a lower carb recipe. I almost always just pan sear the salmon since that is easy.

    This is my simple go to recipe especially if we are having people over for dinner. Everyone always loves it. I also like this one but it is around 18 carbs per piece (but again I go heavy on panko crust). This is great, has no fishy taste at all and is 15g per piece. It does taste very sweet though.
     
  4. nebby3

    nebby3 Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    923
    I've been following the discussion and I think this is beautifully put-- "sustainable" is key. If your kid feels too deprived this is not going to be sustainable. My dd is 13 and we are experimenting with some lower carb meals for her. We would not have done so at age 3 but at 13 I feel more comfortable doing so. I've done various things myself like a modified form of paleo and my other kids have dietrsy issues so we have a real mishmash around here. Last night I made 4 different kinds of burritos for 6 people -- low carb, dairy free, gluten free and regular.
     
  5. Lakeman

    Lakeman Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    I don't know where I originally read that. But here is what I found today:

    Fish is ranked into three categories: Less than .09, between .09 and .29, and .29 to .5.

    You can be exposed to mercury in a variety of ways: you could get vaccines that contain mercury (yes some still do), you could live near a coal burning power plant, you could eat high fructose corn syrup, rice, or fish. Of these even the best fish will dose you more than rice, HFCS or vaccines. I do not know how much or little the power plants effect will be.

    So what that means is that for most people fish will be the highest source of mercury they are likely to encounter (unless you are eating certain paints made before 1991 or breaking open old thermometers). All fish even those that are relatively low in mercury compared to other fish are still higher in mercury than vaccines or HFCS or rice. I doubt dental fillings are as high a source unless there is something wrong.

    Regardless of all that the gov recommends pregnant woman and children to not eat fish (I agree with that advice) because there are noticeable effects when they eat fish. Others are advised to eat fish less than once per week. No doubt because there will be no obvious problems. However, there is no safe amount of exposure to mercury and it should always be avoided when you can. You body can remove mercury but it does so slowly and there may still be harmful effects that are just not all that obvious. Everyone makes their own risk analysis - in my family I have a son whose liver does not detox as well as it should so we make the choice to avoid all fish as a family. Myself, being older and with little evidence that my liver is impaired will eat fish out at restaurants once in a while and I would personally not avoid the wild alaskan salmon (except that it is $17 a pound in the store).

    http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/guide.asp
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096006/
    http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/foods-containing-mercury-3669.html
     
  6. Snowflake

    Snowflake Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    482
    I haven't been following this thread closely, and I kind of hesitate to wade in since it's a little o/t to diabetes. I'm not quibbling with choices you've made for you family, but I do want to correct this statement about pregnant women, since I'm currently pregnant and there's a lot of misinformation about this topic. The US government actually encourages pregnant women to consume fish 2 or 3 times/week, with recommendations on how to choose lower mercury-content fish, http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/Metals/ucm393070.htm

    Additionally, a federal advisory panel has recommended the FDA further loosening tuna consumption guidelines for pregnant women, http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/should-pregnant-women-eat-more-tuna/
     
  7. Megnyc

    Megnyc Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,373
    The FDA absolutely does not say kids should not eat fish. Where did you read/hear that? The FDA draft for the most recent advice states that even young children should eat fish 2-3x per week. Totally off topic but I am incredibly impressed you are finding wild alaskan salmon for $17 a pound! We pay around $30/pound in our local market. For anyone that has a local trader joe's (we don't), you can get decent salmon there relatively affordably.

    http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/Metals/ucm393070.htm
     
  8. Michelle'sMom

    Michelle'sMom Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,432
    Meg, I live in West Texas, far away from anything resembling salt water. No fish markets anywhere, so I'm stuck with buying frozen, or the previously frozen they thaw & try to sell as fresh in nearby markets. We eat white bass & catfish, both raised in private pond belonging to a friend of my husband. Every piece of salmon I've bought has ended up being a waste.

    I live in an area where water wells contaminated with oilfield chemicals have been known to cause toilet fires. And no, I'm not joking. Mercury in the fish we eat is not really a big worry. We raise our own vegetables & I either can or freeze them. We also eat a lot of wild game...quail, deer & turkey. Are they safer than store bought? I don't use pesticides in my garden, but it grows in the soil on our 15 acres. It's watered with a sprinkler system from our well, & the occasional rain that falls through what's most likely an equally contaminated sky. The wild game, whether from local or distant hunting trips, feeds on natural grasses & grains in the area, which also grow in contaminated soil. They drink contaminated water. The same could be said for the fresh beef, pork & chicken we used to raise on our land.

    My point is, there is no way to completely escape some sort of chemical contamination in the food supply, no matter the source. I buy the safest & highest quality food I can. That's really all I can do.
     
  9. Lakeman

    Lakeman Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    You are so right I threw that together rather quickly and it was not nuanced enough.

    According to the US gov. pregnant woman should avoid certain fish completely and limit other fish to a few times per week. Also certain fish is quite healthy despite the mercury. If you eat it three times per week but not six times per week are you restricting your fish intake or promoting it? The gov is both asking pregnant woman to limit fish consumption to avoid the mecury but also asking them to increase it to include other nutrients. Of course the best fish choices are healthy because they contain a variety of proteins, minerals, vitamins, and omega-3 fats all of which can be found in other food sources. The Western diet contains far too many omega-6 fats and too few omega-3 fats resulting in an imbalance. Many people may have a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 as bad as 15:1 while some people may have ratios as bad as 60:1. If your ratio is 15:1 you will have to consume an awful lot of fish or other sources of omega-3s to rebalance that ratio. I think a better way to address the imbalance is not simply to include more fish but to cut back on the omega-6 fats. Wow, look at that a proponent of a relatively low carb diet is recommending cutting back on fat. Also grass fed beef and butter from grass fed cows has more omega-3 fats and less omega-6 fats than your typical store bought beef and butter. There are several oils, like flax, that are high in omega-3s which could serve as a bandaid to address the imbalance. Long chain omega-3 are more typically associated with fish but can also be found in egg yolks. Since the good stuff can be found in other foods but there is no safe amount of mercury to consume then for me fish consumption will be a tasty indulgence.

    Now regarding children: the same harm from mercury that can befall unborn children can also happen to young children.

    I believe that the choices an individual should make are very different than the choices that a public policy maker has to recommend to a general population knowing that far too many people will do nothing at all near what they should. Eating some fish with a certain risk for a person that will never eat grass fed beef or who will never eat enough eggs because of other public policy decisions makes sense from that perspective. But avoiding most fish and replacing it with better cuts of meat from in individual perspective also makes sense.

    I would like to thank you for wading in and straightening out my statement.
     
  10. quiltinmom

    quiltinmom Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,189
    Yes! Well said. At first I thought this thread was about basically cutting out most carbs, or as much as possible...which I am not a fan of. But moving toward a more moderate diet is great. Improving the quality of the foods we eat from any/all the food groups can only be good, not only for d but for overall health.

    I think the key, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is that your son is on board with it. You mentioned that he wants make these changes. It's not some weird or extreme diet you are trying to impose upon him against his will/cooperation. As I sometimes put it, it's not "some dumb thing mom is making us do." And the other important point is that you don't seem ultra rigid about it--that there will be allowances for certain situations.

    If a diet change can be more about adding better foods, less about banning certain other foods, the more likely it will be successful. The hope is that the healthier stuff will sort of edge out the less good stuff, without it being missed.
     
  11. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I'm honestly curious ... is this a diagnosed condition?
     
  12. suej

    suej Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    172
    I think that's what I am trying to achieve, going slowly a meal at a time, the lower carb breakfast (20 carbs in 1 slice low GI seedloaf (which he has always eaten) and fried tomatoes or mushroom, eggs and bacon/mince/sausage instead of 2 slices of bread and 1/2 cup of juice (45 carbs) or a serving of cereal has really tempered the post breakfast spike, and he loves it (both the food and reacting less to spikes/dips). So just need to make a delicious lower carb plan as we go along. Will post some pre and post CGM tracings when adjusted to lower carb eating plan and have more internet to upload carelink- naughty sons used it up on some online game!!!!
     
  13. Lakeman

    Lakeman Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    956
    There aren't really any tests for it. We were at the docs talking about some tics that he had started to get and the doc said 1. the medication for the tics would be worse than the tics and 2. she suggested that it could be related to various triggers that are not being removed sufficiently by the liver. After doing my own research online I confirmed what the doctor had said and followed a plan from other parents with kids who had tics. The proof was in the pudding as they diminished greatly right away and then over time reduced gradually by following the plan. there were set-backs but finally after about two years I can at last say that he is tic free. His taking some vitamins and supplements that are supposed to assist the liver in detoxifying the body worked so that is enough for me. On the other hand whenever I hear people talking about doing a detox that involves ingesting large amounts of something and having it all get flushed out I "run the other way". Detox is not supposed to be some dramatic event. It is the normal function of the liver to remove all sorts of things that don't belong constantly and slowly.

    The plan was not all that hard or unusual: remove all artificial sweeteners, add vitamin C, magnesium, b-complex, and Calcium D Glucarate. Some time later we also removed store bought milk products and that resulted in another improvement, but it took time. Now we maintain the vitamins and supplements most of the time and only restrict store bought milk products most of the time. We absolutely avoid aspartame like the plague.
     
  14. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    I think there is strong evidence that no one should eat more than 150 grams of carbs a day except if they are exercising intensely. There is also evidence that going under 100 grams starts to cause physiological insulin resistance to preserve blood sugar for the brain. So 100-150 grams or 20-30% whichever is lower is probably the sweet spot for health.

    The highest insulin sensitivity occurs at about 30% carbs in the long term. People on very low carb diets actually will get their fasting numbers creep up over 100 and 110, and will fail glucose tolerance tests because of physiological insulin resistance.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    This is a site mainly dealing with children with diabetes. Please provide strong evidence that it is beneficial both mentally, socially, and physically for a CHILD to eat only 100-150 carbs per day.

    Since you don't have signature information, I am also interested if you have a child with diabetes and if so, how has a diet that low in carbs worked out for them.
     
  16. wilf

    wilf Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    9,652
    If you're making blanket statements like this you need to provide either:

    a) solid references to back up what you're saying;

    b) a disclaimer indicating that these are your personal beliefs
     
  17. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    I am a biochemist and sports nutritionist (for 26 years) and I had been studying blood sugar and macronutrient intake specifically for the 2 years prior to my son's diagnosis. My wife is also a cardiologist.

    I wrote "I think" regarding the 150 grams a day. It is based on a large mass of research, but take that as an opinion. I am not really prepared to post 150 or so resources that I've studied in the last 26 years.

    The biggest reason though is that both type I and type II diabetes and CHD shot up dramatically since the government started to push a high (above 30%) carb agenda on the country in the early 1900s.

    My son is getting about 30% carbs right now, and has an A1C of 5.9 at 10 weeks. Probably a strong honeymoon. The AMA would have had him eating 90 grams of carbs 3 times a day for a 50 pound kid. Nobody except HARD laborers ate that way 100 years ago. My son is gaining weight again with a 30% carb diet and he has carbs on his plate every meal, starch, fruit, milk and vegetables. How do people even compose a meal with 90-130 grams of carbs?

    I am not a paleo or ketongenic or low carb advocate, but 20-30% is not low, it is historically normal. I am against the 20th century invention of the carb based (government dependent) diet that never existed in human history before, and the 20th century disease list that came with it.

    Please don't take my claimed credentials for anything. This is all opinion. I am just sad that we let 20th century bad science, and social/political agenda convince us that a normal diet was supposed to be based on carbohydrates.

    Here is what the OP posted: Hi
    How many carbs a day on average does your tween eat? My son (12) probably about 200. Does anyone here advocate low carb high fat diet - does look interesting but difficult? Might make balancing act slightly easier but would struggle to go really low carb. I would value all your views. Thank you.


    My response was that I don't think anyone benefits from eating over 150 grams of carbs a day. I think I responded with a properly formulated response based on the way that the OP phrased the question.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  18. Theo's dad Joe

    Theo's dad Joe Approved members

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    802
    Give me a piece of evidence that anyone benefits from having more than 150 grams a day. (I don't consider feeding carb addiction cycles to be a benefit).
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  19. njswede

    njswede Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    That's just not accurate. There are many cultures where meat and fish are and were a luxury item. I have Swedish roots, and we traditionally had a diet rich in potatoes, barley, rye and wheat that goes back at least 300-400 years. 100 years ago, if you were lucky, you had access to salted fish and some game. Pork and beef was reserved for Christmas eve. And then there are all the rice-based cultures.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,771
    You are the one who posted that you thought there was "strong evidence". I simply asked you to produce some of that evidence as it relates to children. I don't need 150 examples.

    Personally, I don't let "the government" dictate what I feed my child. Just common sense and what she enjoys and thinks tastes good. Fruits, veggies, chicken, steak, potatoes, etc. and usually it's over 100 carbs a day and my daughter is doing just fine.

    Just so I am clear, based on your comments above about the government, you believe carbs cause Type 1 diabetes?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice