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Is a "closed-loop" CGM and Pump a Cure?

Discussion in 'Stickies' started by Sarah Maddie's Mom, Jan 6, 2010.

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Is a "closed-loop" system a cure?

Poll closed May 6, 2010.
  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    1.7%
  2. No

    224 vote(s)
    96.1%
  3. I don't know

    5 vote(s)
    2.1%
  1. tiffanie1717

    tiffanie1717 Approved members

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    Not a cure because you'd still have to maintain the equipment, etc., BUT I'd take it for them in a heartbeat while we're waiting for the real cure! :)
     
  2. Toni

    Toni Banned

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    I agree with this 100 percent. Maybe there would be less contention if they named the new device "Smart Pump" instead of "Artificial Pancreas." Smart Pump is really what I believe it is, not taking the place of a pancreas. They already have a pump that can turn off if BG hits 50. And they already have demonstrated that the "AP" can control BGs much better than we can overnight. Last I heard they were working on how to test the AP with exercise.
     
  3. Flutterby

    Flutterby Approved members

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    I agree with Rella, its not that these big pharma companies don't deserve or need to make a profit.. the problem is these CEO's of the pharma companies SHOULD NOT be CEO's of non-profit organizations. That is a major conflict of interest and worries me. I love JDRF and what its done for my family. Since Kaylee's been diagnosed we've been a part of it.. I do a lot of volunteering with them.. My concern is the money that *I* raised for a cure is NOT going where I want it to go..I will continue to support JDRF and their programs, and if the AP is out before a cure, that will be great. But my ultimate goal is a cure, a real one, for Kaylee and all of our kids..
     
  4. jade

    jade Approved members

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    AP is not my idea of a cure at all. I wish some major decision maker within JDRF would take a look at all our replies.
    Infact the closest we have to a perfect Artificial Pancreas may be the Smart Insulin...which in my book is still not a cure but it's something I could trust much more than a battery powered AP. I think more investment should go toward the Smart Insulin. It seems like a win-win for Insulin manufacturing Pharma companies and Diabetics.
     
  5. ecs1516

    ecs1516 Approved members

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  6. sarahspins

    sarahspins Approved members

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    It's not even close to a cute.. a closed loop system could be a giant leap forward in terms of *management* for some. Though I personally am EXTREMELY doubtful that any closed loop system is capable of acheiving the level of tight control that many do, simply becuase we as humans can be smarter about making more aggressive choices vs letting things play out, and spotting problems before they're truly obvious to a bunch of code. I doubt that any system could receive FDA approval if the algortithm was as aggressive as some of us would prefer it to be.

    I'm not honestly sure as a diabetic that I'd be comfortable using a closed loop system - to me that signifies giving up a good deal of control over my insulin delivery, and I'm not sure I'm really okay with that.
     
  7. hawkeyegirl

    hawkeyegirl Approved members

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    From what I remember of Dr. Buckingham's presentation at the CWD conference that I attended, this is pretty much dead on. He was showing an "automated" system that controlled BG at night. For those "oh crap" nights where basals go wacky or maybe there's been prolonged exercise, or perhaps even a fat spike, the "AP" might do a better job than someone without a CGM, and occasionally better than someone with one, especially if they aren't responsive to the alarms for one reason or another. But it wasn't "tight" control - we do better than it did probably 95% of the time.

    The first step will be very, very small, and pretty unexciting to those of us who are currently using pumps and CGMs in any sort of "intensive management" fashion.
     
  8. Omo2three

    Omo2three Approved members

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    You call that a cure?
    It may be an advancement in diabetic care...but not a cure... you already knew the answer to that.
     
  9. Jeff

    Jeff Founder, CWD

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    Given the amount of involvement in this discussion, I thought I'd look at the current CWD poll on this topic. What I found was rather shocking.

    One user from Indiana voted 90 times for "I don't support the project because it's not a real cure." Another user, this time from New York, voted 27 times against the project.

    I've removed the duplicate votes and reset the poll results. Right now, Friday afternoon, the poll shows:

    56% supporting and happy to see money spent
    20% supporting but worried about resources
    10% not supporting because it's not a cure
    12% who want to learn more
     
  10. buggle

    buggle Approved members

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    I love the development of new technology to help manage diabetes. So to me, that's not an issue. What is an issue is that many of the people running the JDRF are industry CEOs who have personal financial interest in these products, are redefining the AP as a cure and are fundraising from parents who think they are helping to fund cure-based research, while a huge chunk of donations are subsidizing industry development of very expensive management tools.

    I think it's an ethical issue, not an issue of whether we support AP R&D.
     
  11. Flutterby

    Flutterby Approved members

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    Wow.. I didn't know you could vote more than once.. I'm surprised someone spent the time to vote 90times.. :eek:
     
  12. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

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    Hi Jeff - thanks for the heads up on that. I always assumed 1 vote per member but just tried to see if it would let me vote again on the homepage poll and it appears that it did. :confused:

    As for the poll linked to this thread I'm pretty sure there is no way to vote twice, is that correct? So that 95% who do not view the AP as a "cure" still stands, right?

    Jeff, I just want to be sure that folks reading this see that you are talking about a different poll - not this poll. In fact, I believe there was more chatter about that poll number on the other thread - and less about it here '-)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  13. Jeff

    Jeff Founder, CWD

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    It's not completely possible to prevent multiple votes without requiring registration to vote, and that's not what I want to do. We log every vote and can determine duplicates, and I always remove them prior to publication.
     
  14. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

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    Is that all polls? Homepage and also those linked to threads like the above? If it's a concern in thread polls would it be wise to set them as open so that members can see who voted and how?
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff Founder, CWD

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    To respond to a poll in the CWD Forums you must have an account and log in, and thus there are no duplicated votes.

    The CWD home page poll is different by design. Registration and log in is not required.

    I can, however, identify duplicate votes.
     
  16. Flutterby

    Flutterby Approved members

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    Thanks Jeff, for making that clear.:cwds:
     
  17. Darryl

    Darryl Approved members

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    I voted exactly once in the poll. What I don't get is why "closed loop" and "cure" are in even the same question. It's like asking "is a motorized wheelchair with a collision avoidance sensor a cure for paralysis?".

    I think a poll like this might be more likely to solicit honest voting if the question itself was worded honestly, such as "Would a closed-loop CGM and Pump be a signficant advancement in diabetes management?". To even propose that it is a cure is likely to get a lot of people upset.
     
  18. buggle

    buggle Approved members

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    The best analogy yet.

    If I were a paraplegic, I'd love to have a motorized wheelhchair with collision avoidance. And I'll love for my kid to have the very best CGM/pump combination possible. But it's not a cure by a long shot.

    I don't want to subsidize multi-national corporations who make bigger and bigger profits every year while our healthcare costs continue to skyrocket. What I want is an organization that truly advocates for our children with no other motivation.
     
  19. Christopher

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    I don't think the intent of the poll was to get people upset. There are far more important things going on in the world for people to be upset about. I think people should feel free to create polls on whatever subject they are interested in. But we are all entitled to our own opinions. :cwds:
     
  20. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

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    The intent of this poll ( open only to members and not subject to duplicate voting) was entirely selfish. ;)

    I felt very uncomfortable the first time I heard the "AP" referred to as a "cure". I simply wanted to gauge the extent to which others shared or didn't share my view. I am a bit taken aback by the results. I don't read anything into the 95% other than the simple face value statement that the vast majority of this population of D parents do not perceive the "AP" as a cure. What it is, or what it represents or the extent to which it will be supported was not at issue in this poll. :cwds:
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010

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