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How many carbs are NEEDED per day???

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by mph, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. mph

    mph Approved members

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    Where can I find a "requirements" list for foods (starches, dairy, veggies, fruits, fats.....) for children????? I keep finding them for adults or based on calorie "needs", but how do you KNOW how many calories your child really needs per day?

    CDE says a minimum of 1600 calories, with 180 grams carb per day for Nick (age 7.5, 50lbs). If he is getting less carbs than this (say, under 90) can he produce "starvation ketones"? Will he still grow well if we go heavier on the fresh veggies and other nutrient dense food groups and lighter on carbs?????

    Just wondering.............:) I don't necessarily "plan" what he will eat day to day and somedays he eats plenty of "carbs" and some days not. Those days he has more veggies and "free" foods (cheese, protein...).

    TIA!!!!!!!!!!!:)
     
  2. Momof4gr8kids

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    Here's a link that may be helpful.

    http://www.bcm.edu/cnrc/bodycomp/energy/energyneeds_calculator.htm

    What I know about ketones is when a person has starvation ketones they are burning fat for fuel, or at least some. People that do not have fat will burn protein (muscle) and that is why children need a minimum amount of carbs per day. You son looks slender, so yeah, I wouldn't go about planning it, but I also wouldn't hold back either.
     
  3. miss_behave

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    I've looked up a few things

    http://www.ific.org/nutrition/sugars/index.cfm says that "Children and adults need a minimum of 130 grams of carbohydrates per day for proper brain function"

    "Although some parents may choose to cut carbs from their diet, this is not a good idea for children. Carbohydrates are the body’s main source of energy and are needed to help children grow, learn and play. Active children depend on carbohydrates for energy to fuel their muscles during sports and physical activity" http://www.essentialnutrition.org/lckids1.php

    Theres also some charts on that site showing how many grams of carbohydrate are needed for the child's calorie intake eg 1600 calories needs 180-260 grams per day.
     
  4. mph

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    Thanks Jamie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Miss behave!!!!!!!!!
    Great Sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Kirsten

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    Wow, we don't restrict carbs at all and I would say Griffin gets around 150g / day. I don't think I could get him to eat 180g/ day.

    Kirsten
     
  6. twodoor2

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    Your son weighs about as much as my daughter (4 year old DD outweighs him by 5 pounds:eek:), and she eats an average of 160 carbs a day (she ranges anywhere from 140 to 200 carbs a day. Those 200 carb days are usually parties, or special occasions.

    I keep a running tab of her carbs for every day. You have to be careful though and not overdo the carbs either. If you give too many carbs, say for example I started giving Elizabeth 250 carbs a day, her insulin needs would increase and that would also increase the duration of insulin activity in her system. This could lead to misdoses and hypoglycemia. Some parents even have different carb ratios for meals that go above x amount of carbs. In any case, I try to limit her carbs to a maximum amount during each meal to avoid this problem, and she never complains, she usually is very filled up by the end of each meal.

    If your child is not a big eater, getting enough carbs down him could be an issue as well. I'm just glad that carbs are one of the easiest types of foods to get down a child. There is tons of variety out there (fruits, veggies, grains, sugars). If diabetics had to rely on eating protein to dose their insulin, I would have a huge problem with Elizabeth!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2008
  7. kaismom

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    Our Endo office's dietitian put kai on a plan to eat about 210g of carbs per day. 45 at breakfast 60 lunch and dinner and 15g snacks 3x per day. This is based on his height and weight more than age I think to determine what he needs to grow (and gain a little as he was below ideal weight at dx). We find it hard to get that into him while trying to give a balanced healthy diet, especially without using straight sugar items like juice and desserts. We generally add 15g - 20g of liquid carbs from juice to chocolate milk at every meal.
    Kai is 5 and about 40lbs
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2008
  8. Twinklet

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    Our CDE said minimum of 130 carbs per day, but Emily eats at least 250, sometimes 300.
     
  9. LJS118

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    I just checked to see the info that we download from Ryan's pump. He is ranging between 165 and 276 grams of carbs per day. He's 11 years old and weighs 75 pounds...does that seem okay? I've never though about it.
     
  10. mph

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    Ha! Your dd would whip Nick in a wrestling match......:D He is very docile, too, for the most part.

    Thanks, I've never heard about the "overdoing" but have SEEN it from experience.......large meals are difficult to "correct" because the IOB does follow a different pattern for us. When I correct with NO food coming in (night) the insulin does it's thing and is DONE in less than 2 hrs. Weird. But after breakfast (often his biggest meal), it seems to work the full 4-5 hrs. Not sure how much the Lantus is "interfering" here.

    Nick is a CARNIVORE!!!!!!! He loves fruits and veggies too (OK, omnivore), but PREFERS MEAT!!!! NOT a pizza OR pasta lover. So many of his "carbs" end up being bread products or milk.:eek:

    My 4yo dd is a self-made vegetarian (herbivore ;).

    THANKS ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. twodoor2

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    She has a twin brother, and she's 3 inches taller, and about 15 pounds heavier. Whenever we go anywhere, people automatically assume she's at least two years older than he is, and he's 70% percentile for height and weight for his age (I come from a family of gargantuan giant men, so I anticipate he'll be bigger when he grows up).

    Well, they wrestle and fight as you can imagine. She pushes him, and it's like Superman pushing someone - he goes flying across the room. We keep anticipating the day he suddenly starts taking off in his growth and gets even with her for all the times she beat him up!! :eek:
     
  12. Jacob'sDad

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    How many carbs do kid's need in a day?

    My opinion is pretty controversial but I'd say zero.
    Somehow Eskimo kids survived just fine for the last 4 or 5 thousand generations on virtually zero carbs. Are we to believe that they were are all stupid because their brains didn't develop?
    Before the agricultural revolution we all ate low carb and were healthier by far than we are now.

    That all being said, I'm a hypocrite. I eat low carb but my kids do not. I try to limit their junk intake somewhat but they pretty much eat like other kids their age. I guess I feel that if I tried to change their diets too much that they would rebel against it and I would be fighting a losing battle.

    I also don't think a reasonable amount of carbs will hurt kids, I just don't think they need carbs to thrive. However, too many carbs is definitely unhealthy and is probably one of the biggest health problems in this country today.
     
  13. sammysmom

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    I am in complete agreement with you. I do not keep my kids on a low carb diet but I also do not shoot for a recommended amount of carbs per day either. Like everything else, it is moderation that is the key. I think that we are all worried about the carbs per day becuase that is what we deal with day in and day out. There have been days when my son eats about 50 carbs and days when he eats over 200. As long as he is eating healthy then it does not matter to me one bit. There can also be such a thing as too many carbs per day. That is a sure fire way to pack on the pounds and that is one area that I do not want my children to have to deal with.
     
  14. Mom2Madi

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    That sounds about right (although I don't know his height). My daughter is also 11. She weighs 80 lbs and just had her annual physical in December. They told me she is in the 50th percentile for her age. She probably eats about 250 carbs per day. Same exact breakfast, lunch and snacks every day which is how I know. She was never a big eater before she got Diabetes - could go a whole day and not get hungry. After she was dx and got on insulin she was eating all the time and her appetite has continued to be good. She was always very tiny but in the past 18 mths since dx she's shot up 8 inches and put on 40 lbs. I know if you don't have enough insulin it could stunt your growth so I figure she was sick for awhile before dx (or maybe just coincidence with her body's planned growth spurt). She's blown out of all her clothes/shoes this year...and I happy to see that because it means she's healthy.
     
  15. M&MMOM

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    I too agree with you. We try to eat very little processed food so it's hard to get a high number of grams each day- Even if you do eat a lot of fruit and veggies!
     
  16. twodoor2

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    Not all carbs are equal though. I do think children/adults need fiber, and they cannot get that from protein alone. There's a big difference between whole grains, fruits, veggies vs. sugar and simple carbs which make up most of the junk food industry. I think much of the health problems you refer to are from the adulterated, processed, sugary foodsthat have been shoved on every shelf, drive-thru and vending machine in modern Westernized society. If you had to live on a diet of pure complex carbs, you would be much better off.

    There are people that post on this board that are from other countries besides the U.S. (where most of us are from), and their kids probably eat a lot healthier than the typical American child. I know a person who once posted that the child ate a salad (they're not from Western society) and everyone was shocked. It's very sad, and I have to spend so much money in this country to give my children a good diet that is constantly being sabataged by all the junk we see on TV commercials, at parties, and just going out the door.

    As for Eskimos, I don't think that's a fair comparison because they've lived in the arctic environment for a very long time and have become acclamated to it. They also live on a diet rich in fat and protein because they need that to survive the cold. I think if you brought an Eskimo to live in a warmer climate, but gave them the same diet of seal meat, they would become very unhealthy.
     
  17. mph

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    This is part of my question, I guess. NOT that I plan to "cut" his carbs at all (with me, yes I'd do it, but not him without proof that it was in HIS best interest). I wondered just how LITTLE amount they NEED because we are not steady from day to day and......well, insulin has side effects in the big picture. Yes, they need it to survive, so we have no choice. Catch 22. I'll join the controversial side. Less carbs means less insulin (fast acting anyway).

    I suppose you'd have to eat a wagon load of veggies to make up for the "recommended" grams. But I wonder if healthy "complex" carbs can be eaten in small enough amounts throughout the day so as to be covered by Lantus set a bit higher than needed as a "basal" and lessen the volume of Humalog needed.............just musing over this.......I'm certainly NOT a radical throw caution to the wind person. Just trying to look beyond NOW.:)

    Please do not lynch me...........I'm NOT trying to convince anyone else to change. I'm not planning on changing. I just know a friend who IS doing this and with great results so I have been trying to figure out the "hows" and "whys" for curiosity sake. I love learning new things!!!!! :D

    Other cultures eat sooooo differently than we do and are for the most part healthier. There's got to be something to be learned by this. Hmmm. ;)
     
  18. saxmaniac

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    This is pretty much what Dr. Bernstein recommends in his diabetes book. He's not a pediatrician, and he got his MD after he wrote it. I suspect he got the MD in order to rationalize his treatment, so take his ideas with a grain of salt (salt being preferably attached to a large margarita).
     
  19. twodoor2

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    He's very controversial. I suspect his methodology very much.
     
  20. twodoor2

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    You could write a book on how the food in the United States became so full of horrible things that do not just affect health, but brain function. I give my children Omega-3 every day since most processed food is adulterated with high quanities of Omega-6 oils and this affects how they think. Trans fats (hydrogenated oils) and high fructose corn syrup obliterate us, and are considered dangerous. Trans fats are becoming outlawed in certain states (thank heaven) and many countries have illegalized the use of them. I don't want to get on a diatribe of food issues, but we live in a society that is producing obesity, type 2 diabetes and other food-related diseases exponentially.

    Therefore, as far as carbs go, I think that complex carbs, preferably organic, are the way to go if you are going to feed any carbs. As far as dairy carbs, I also think organic yogurt and milk produced without hormones, are also beneficial to any growing child, diabetic or no.

    I stay totally away from trans fats, high fructose corn syrup, and meat/milk products containing hormones.
     

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