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How hard is it to do a 504?

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by CC'sMom, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. CC'sMom

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    I’ll try not to make this a long story, but I do want to give you some background. My daughter was diagnosed last January. So once she went back to school, we just followed the advise of the nurse there. She was on MDI and had tons of lows. Repeated lows triggered migraines. She spent tons of time in the nurse’s office. Honestly, this was so new and overwhelming I just followed their protocol already in place.

    This summer she went on the pump. It made a huge difference. Her control is way better. That’s not to say she doesn’t still have lows and highs, they just aren’t as frequent. And her migraines are gone. She attends a Catholic school and is in the 8th grade. The nurses are provided by the public school system in the township. Right before school started I had a meeting with all her teachers and the office staff. None of the nurses attended as the township schools started a week after us and they did not have to report to work. As it is, one nurse is only in the building about 3 hours a day. The office staff is wonderful and well trained. (Last year my daughter was one of 5 diabetic students, this year she is one of 3.) Anyhow, during this meeting, all the teachers said they were completely comfortable with her testing her blood and treating lows in the classroom without going to the nurse. My main concern was her missing class work while sitting in the nurses office. Everything I asked for, they gave me. They have been absolutely wonderful and supportive. So have 2 of the nurses.

    The head nurse came into school for the first time on Monday and absolutely will not allow my daughter to check in her classroom. She has left messages for the teachers and the other two nurses that it is no longer allowed. She states township rules about blood and sharps. I had two long conversations with her and she will not relent. The school principal said we have to go along with what she says as they don’t want to loose their funding from the township. So now it’s time for me to do a 504 plan. One of the mom’s gave me a copy of hers from last year. Her daughter has graduated and no longer there, but she did have permission to test in class! So I’m basically going to fine tune hers to fit our needs. So all I have to do is to list my daughter's needs, have it approved by the endo, the principal, and us parents? It looks too simple. I feel like I must be missing something? I went back through the posts about others doing 504’s and one of the mom’s has one posted. It’s almost identical to the one loaned to me. Once I have all the signatures, that over-rides township policy?

    I’m motivated to get this done quickly. Today after gym class she felt low, so she had to walk to the nurses office to check (complete opposite ends of the building) and she was 31!!!

    Sorry this is so long! Thanks in advance for any advise.
     
  2. lotsoftots

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    I am new to all of this but I was told to try the 504 plan here on this site for my daughters school..it was easy and the school was very impressed with what I gave them...here is the link I used they have a plan for all grades plans for shots and plans for the pump:D

    http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/504/
     
  3. CC'sMom

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    Debbie, I’m sorry for your daughters recent diagnosis. I’ll never forget how it felt in the beginning. And wow! You do have tons of tots!!! LOL!

    Thanks so much for the link! There is a wealth of information there. What I didn’t see and may have missed, is if the 504 has to be filed some where other then the school. Does a copy need to go to some agency or is this strictly between us, the doctor, and the school? Thanks!
     
  4. 3js

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    I hope you get this resolved. It doesn`t sound safe for her to be walking all the way to the nurse`s office , when she is low and unattended. For the sharps issue, we got a sharps container from the pharmacy. There are lancers that use drums and no sharps have to be handled by staff.
     
  5. lotsoftots

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    CC's mom I dont know about that one I just gave one to my school and they filed it away.my Dr wrote up a short form and put it in their file..maybe cause its going to chage alot at the start:confused:
    You know having a ton of kids is SOOOOOOOOOOO much easier then this but I am sure well I have no choice I will learn this too:p
     
  6. selketine

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    Well I'm not sure where to start with this one.:rolleyes:

    I hope the nurse also has forbidden all scratched scabs and mosquito bites and she doesn't let the female students who are menstruating come to school. She must have also outlawed all sharp pencils, pushpins, thumb tacks and other such items.

    I would suggest you ask her for a copy of the policy in writing.

    This chapter of the Legal Rights of Students with Diabetes addresses the issue of having a blanket policy: http://web.diabetes.org/Advocacy/legalmaterials/LegalRights/LR-Chap8.pdf

    This chapter of the same book deals in part with self-testing in the classroom: http://web.diabetes.org/Advocacy/legalmaterials/LegalRights/LR-Chap9.pdf

    Also people like the Multiclix lancing device by Accu-check. The sharps are hidden inside a drum and never exposed when changing to a new one.

    I would also call the ADA and request their free school discrimination packet: 1-800-DIABETES.
     
  7. Beach bum

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    Oh Carol! You are too funny. Maybe the nurse once worked at Sea World:eek:

    Poster...
    Definitely get that 504 in place. For example, when your daughter felt low after gym, she should have been able to test/treat on the spot. Or, she should have had an adult accompany her down to the nurses office. We are lucky, the nurses come to my daughters class to test as they feel she will miss to much class time. They can't really say she can't test/treat in class as her teacher is T1 and needs to do so herself!
    Definitely check in on the resources Carol provided, they are really helpful as is the 504 page on the CWD site.

    Best of luck.
     
  8. CC'sMom

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    from selketine: "I hope the nurse also has forbidden all scratched scabs and mosquito bites and she doesn't let the female students who are menstruating come to school. She must have also outlawed all sharp pencils, pushpins, thumb tacks and other such items."

    I was thinking the same thing! I've been in the classroom when there has been a lot more blood then from a lancet!! And I tried to explain to her that it's all self-contained and there would be no sharps to dispose of. And I soooo wish I would have thought to ask for a copy of that policy in writing! I can't believe that in a district that size no child with diabetes is testing in the classroom!!

    My daughters BG was 77 after gym class (she checked at the nurse instead of the locker room this time). She dropped to 31 after about 45 minutes and another student walked her to the nurses office. All the staff agree that it would have been much better for her to check and treat in class. It's just this one stinkin nurse who unfortunately is in control!

    And I forgot to mention, she tried to turn this around saying - don't you want your daughter in the care of a nurse when she's not well? It's unfair to the teachers and the other students for testing and treatment to go on in class.....

    Thanks everyone for the insight and support. I'm going to start working on the 504 this morning. Once that's done, all I have to do is have it signed and it's "law"??? Seems too easy for all the grief this nurse is causing.
     
  9. selketine

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    Still email, call, send a letter to that nurse and ask for a policy ASAP. I would think this will only help you with your meeting.

    We would LOVE for our kids to be under the care of a nurse 24/7. Sure! Come to my house and monitor William all night while I sleep! Follow him around the high school! Sit in the back seat while he drives the car (he is 5 now). But really! We have to teach our kids to self-manage as they are able - not shove it on them but let them gradually take over and be able to assess and treat their highs and lows. Nurse and Mommy aren't always going to be with them (as much as I'd like to be - believe me!). The nurse is missing the point of that one.
     
  10. Beach bum

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  11. Abby-Dabby-Doo

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    You've already gotten some wonderful advice about the 504, so I'm just going to hit on this!

    Don't these freaking school nurses get it? Don't they understand the low needs to be treated when they happen! So when a child is in the middle of a seizure from epilepsy should they be required to go to the nurse for treatment? When a child can't breathe because of an asthma attack, they should walk to the nurse? When a child gets hit by a car at the school crosswalk, they should go to the nurses office? These are just to name a few- but they are ALL very serious situations, and could be a matter of life or death. How can these school nurses not understand HOW SERIOUS a low blood sugar is? It's not like our kids need a band-aid! :mad:
     
  12. CC'sMom

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    I called the ADA and I spoke with a nice woman named Karen who agreed with all the advice here. My daughter is definitely allowed to test in class if the school receives federal funding. They again agreed with you all to get a copy of the policy from the township stating otherwise.

    So I called the school nurse and told her that I spoke with the ADA that my daughter is allowed to test in class and that I wanted a copy of the policy from her school district saying she can’t. I also told her that I should have a 504 plan in school hopefully by the end of the week. She basically told me that it really doesn’t matter because she checked with her supervisor and there is no law on the books concerning this!!! I told her my daughter is covered under the Disability Act. She is getting me that copy, but I probably won’t have it until Monday because that’s the only day she works at our school.

    I feel like I’m beating my head against the wall! This is no tiny little school district! I can’t imagine that there is no diabetic child in this entire township that is not allowed to test in class! And to make this situation even more stupid is that a child in my daughters school last year did have a 504 in place and was testing in class!! I just don’t get this!

    Anyhow, I called my daughters school and told them I was done dealing with that nurse. And that I will be bringing the signed 504 in ASAP and if the nurse has a problem they are to deal with her. This is ridiculous. Honestly! Why is this so dang hard?? It’s not like this will even be an everyday occurrence. Only when she feels low. Right now I told my daughter not to walk down to the nurses office, just to take her carb right there in class without testing. The endo is okay with this, but in the bigger picture, we need to know what and when those lows are so we can adjust her basals.

    So that’s where things stand. Thank you for all the wonderful support and advise and for letting me rant. You guys rock!
     
  13. Tamara Gamble

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    Carol my friend you are starting to sound like me. LOL! I almost don't need to post except to say:

    I would ask the nurse why no in class testing and documents to prove what she is telling you. If there are no documents then she has no power. Why would they lose their funding? What does the contract between them and the township specifically say? I would get my hands on that one. I find it hard to believe that in order to get a nurse the school must compromise medical care for a student. We don't have a nurse at our school and I'm glad.

    As far as I know our country is based on of the people, by the people and for the people. It is a violation of our constitutional rights to be forced to give away our autonomy as a state or a people, it's a violation of freedom. If you government says our kids get accomodated they get accomodated. (in a public school that is) or where ever federal funding exists. No one can be forced to give up medical treatment in exchange for freedom in this country. Am I making any sense. I know what I'm trying to say, I just don't think I'm saying it very well.

    It's a private school but where does all of their funding come from. You said that the nurse is township funding but what about school lunches? Any free lunches coming anyone's way proving federal funding? Where the money comes from tells us what power you do or do not have.

    Where do you live? Where you live will tell us what state that you are in so that we know the additional laws to look at.

    Also the American Acadamy of Pediatrics supports in class room testing. Pull this document up. Also the Centers for disease Control also support in class room testing. Pull this document up.

    You will find that the OCR has ruled that at the very least the schools must follow the ndep guide which includes in class room testing. Pull this one up. This one only carries weight if the school is federally funded.

    Good Luck to you!

    Tami
     
  14. Tamara Gamble

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    Just for the record. My post popped up at the same time the one before mine did.

    Tami
     
  15. CC'sMom

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    Sorry, but this is long and I hope not too hard to read. But I wanted to let you all know what happened ~ Well things got really ugly at school today. The kids had early dismissal and I saw the principal standing in the yard so I approached him. (now pictures this – there are no busses on early dismissal day and the entire yard was filled with about 200 parents and all the kids) I told him I’d bring the 504 in tomorrow for him to sign. He shook his head and said no, he won’t sign it. I’m almost fell over! I said, I don’t understand, you need to make sure my daughter is okay. He’s like I have an obligation to the rest of the students to keep them safe. He told me he call the Center for Disease Control though our local hospital and they told him absolutely no way should he allow a student to test in class. He said he called the Catholic Diocese and they said no way to testing in class. He told me I had no right to do a 504 that it’s not my decision. He told me that federal funding or not, they don’t have to abide by one. And get this – go ahead and sue him and the school if I’d like because he’s not backing down!!! I must have looked like a complete idiot with my mouth hanging open or something, but I was shocked! Totally shocked.

    So I went into why don’t you want to keep my child safe and the other child had a 504. He said he’s new and didn’t know about it. But I pointed out that he was there last year. He said he never signed it and would not have. I continued to explain to him (probably in too loud of a voice) that I can’t have her 1) missing so much class and 2) walking down the hall with a low of 31. He said they have someone walking down with her and if I really wanted he would let her test in the bathroom. I’m like come on! You mean to tell me you’d let your kid test next to a toilet?? He said, hey if you want to play it this way, fine, but I’m not backing down. At this point I’m shaking and almost crying. I used there is more blood in a scab….I used Lanae’s line about the epileptic. He’s like it’s a different situation. HOW?? Both are life threatening illnesses. And we have a little girl in our school who last year had a heart transplant and he brought that up! (Please know I truly feel for this girl and understand her parents worry, but come on!! She’s 2 grades behind my daughter. They don’t have any classes together.)

    I’m a total mess at this point. I said about 5 times if this is how you felt and you knew what I was doing, why didn’t you call me?? He said he had to make those phone calls to know where he stood. Then he said he wants to work with me and that I should make an appointment to come in and work something out tomorrow. I agreed and as we were walking to the school, I said it’s a shame it came to this as her testing in class would be a rare and emergency situation and I don’t understand how he can’t see where I’m coming from on this. He’s like what?? I said I only want permission for her to test and treat in the classroom when she has symptoms that I feel it’s too dangerous for her to walk from one end of the school to another. And I feel it’s foolish for her to sit in the nurses office after treating a low. Now get this – he says – Is that all this is about?? I’m like yes. He asked if she’d still test in the nurses office before lunch and I said absolutely. Then he says, Oh, Okay, I have no problem with that. PICK ME UP OFF THE GROUND!! He claimed a miscommunication. I told him about incident where my daughter tested and treated in class and the nurse called me and said she couldn’t do that anymore. He said he had no problem with testing & treating with symptoms and she could go ahead and do that. I said, do you want something in writing? He said no. But definitely she could test now. Of course, I had to say, see if you would have called me in the beginning it wouldn’t have gotten this out of hand!!

    I feel stupid that this happened in front of the whole school. I know most were busy getting their kids and all, but I just couldn’t let it go! I’m still shaking and a little upset. I will put something in writing. He can go jump in the lake. In the end, I may have made a scene, but I got what I wanted. I’m a little embarrassed it happened the way it did, but it’s done. My daughter graduates this year, so I don’t have to deal with them again. My son is still there, but we have been talking about putting him in the public school for a number of reasons. This may have sealed the deal…..

    Thanks for listening….
     
  16. 3js

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    CC`s mom, I`m soo glad she will be allowed to test when low in the class. But, DO NOT feel embarrassed!! You were right either way, and he is wrong. Period. There is still no reason for her not to ALWAYS test in the class. You are in the right either way, and have nothing to be embarrassed about! He was so unkind and inappropriate to drop a huge bombshell on you like that out in the schoolyard. He sounds like a real creep. (((((big hugs)))))
     
  17. Abby-Dabby-Doo

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    OH Holly! I'm sorry, what a jerk! IMO This just shows you what type of a person he is... he didn't know the full story, he didn't ask you or talk to you first, he took all his information from the battle axe Nurse, and made some phone calls so he was ready for a battle before there was a reason for one. TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL! He was totally unprofessional from the GET GO! The way he talked to you, the way he handled it, the whole nine yards. WOW, I'm glad you got what you wanted out of the deal- but I'm sorry you had to go through what you went through to obtain it. I know it's embarrassing (with parents around and all) but we have to do what we feel is right for our children, and if you look at it in anyway shape or form, chalk it up as one battle won for your daughter.
    His response to a the epilepsy comments just shows you he has no idea what this disease entails. I wouldn't doubt for a second if he's one of those that thinks she can control this with diet and exercise.
    If your up for it, I don't think it would hurt to brush up on on legal aspects with the Catholic Schools, and the suing. It sure doesn't hurt to know your rights. I would highly suggest you get the discrimination packet and make a couple of phone calls. I wouldn't hurt just to know, not to necessarily act on it, but just to know for your knowledge.
    I hope this means something to you when I say it... But I'm really proud of you. I think you did the right thing, and I think you'll realize that in a little while.
     
  18. selketine

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    Again, I just don't know what to say...of course that never seems to stop me.:rolleyes:

    I agree with others - the principal is not really the well thought out type is he?

    So...is he going to sign the 504? I guess if you get the 504 all signed and stamped and sealed with a kiss then you're good to go....hopefully. Or did you decide that you didn't need it?:confused:

    I just wanted to add that you wouldn't probably start out with a lawsuit if you have problems. What the principal told you that he didn't have to follow the 504 or allow it or abide buy it and about not caring if you sued, etc. I think might turn out not to be true. You could file a complaint with OCR and if that school gets federal money (it appears they do) then OCR will have them singing a different tune or they will lose their federal money. I just can't imagine that they would decide to say o.k. to losing all their federal money just so they didn't have to allow 504 plans. Maybe if their pockets are deep enough but that is not typical. You don't have to hire a lawyer to file an OCR complaint.
     
  19. BCot

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    We went through about the same thing. What is the OCR?
     
  20. CC'sMom

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    Hi BCot, I'm not sure what an OCR is. I'm sure someone here can help you though. How did you make out? Were you able to get a 504?

    Just a quick update: We called the township schools superintendent. There is NO written policy against testing in class. But they did have problems with the kids throwing test strips on the floor, that's why they are verbally pushing no testing in class.

    My daughter did test in class, the teacher saw and sent her to the office. She was 45. So I called that lovely principal and nicely asked him to let the teachers know he gave permission. He actually apologized to me for forgetting to tell them. (However, he never mentioned that confrontation in the parking lot.) But the teacher called me that night and told me she felt like she was in the middle and after listening to that nurse, she was no longer comfortable with my daughter testing. (ARGH!!) After a long discussion, she finally saw my side again. I'm sure I'm marked the "trouble maker mom". But I don't care.

    Even though I got what I wanted for my daughter, I called our state representative (Pennsylvania) and was pleased to hear that there is a bill in committee that would make diabetes care completely what the parent wanted not the school. Even though it won't help us because it will take a long time to pass, I'm very happy about it. For goodness sakes, we go though a lot as parents of diabetic children, their care shouldn't be a fight too.

    Thank you to everyone hear for all your input and much needed support!
     

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