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How do u get type 1?

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Arleigh9003, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Arleigh9003

    Arleigh9003 Approved members

    Jan 29, 2013
    When I brought my son into Er for just not seeming right on the Sunday before Labor Day , I was told by the er doc after he looked in my sons mouth for maybe 1 millisecond, coxsackie virus.. So he gave him a cream for his mouth and sent us home (gave us a ton of juice cs baby was thirsty!!)
    Woke Monday morning around 7am and his breathing was labored so I ran for the door and straight back to ER where in seconds a different doc says your 14 month old has diabetes..
    1 week in ICU later the doc thinks he was misdiagnosed in ER that Sunday.. Really??? Of course he was. If I google coxsackie or ask friends who have children that have had the illness. It presents with blisters on Hands foot AND mouth .. I.e. why it's called hand foot and mouth disease . He had none of those symptoms.. He was tired (cause he felt crappy I assumed!) wet diapers (cause he was drinking a lot, who knew it was a symptom!) and I told the doc about the thirst , diapers, and super crabby lethargic baby..I couldn't see any blisters in his mouth and am amazed the doc could when like I said he said ahhhh for half a second.
    Anyway through further research I found that viruses can "trigger" the onset of diabetes earlier then it's eventual appearance maybe later in life..
    My question is could whatever virus he had really done this ? Had he not gotten whatever bug he had that horrible weekend could this possibly never happend? Or would he eventually have gotten it anyway throughout his life at some point?
    And part two .. Lol what is the connection to immunizations? Please don't connect through thought or belief, just facts. I am one who believes that our children NEED vaccinations and seriously upsetting when just bc assumption and my fact people don't immunize there babies against deadly diseases that could be prevented.
    Sorry for rant or spelling errors.. Typed it all on my iPhone .. Thanks!

    Julien 17 months - dx sept 2012
    Pumping animas ping
    Bella 11 non d
    Mikey 8 non d
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  2. selketine

    selketine Approved members

    Jan 4, 2006
    I can't answer about vaccinations but I think with some illness being a "trigger" for the rapid onset of type 1 - I think that can be true. My son was 26 months at diagnosis and about 3 weeks before he was dx'd he had some cold with an infection. It was right after he stopped antibiotics that he started showing signs of type 1. I think he was probably on the road to type 1 but that illness just taxed his body and pushed him over the edge.

    I don't think that if hadn't gotten sick that he wouldn't have diabetes - it just may have been weeks or months later - it was more like bringing on the inevitable.
  3. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Sep 23, 2007
    "No" on both points.

    No link has been found between vaccinations and Type 1 - Jeff usually posts a link to some of the studies which I can't find at the moment. On the virus, a virus may have triggered your child's genetic predisposition to developing Type 1, but it was months or possibly even longer in the past.

    You didn't do anything to cause your child's dx, and there isn't anything at the moment that you can do to stop it once the autoimmune process gets going.:cwds:
  4. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Jul 30, 2008
    I think it's a tad stronger than "no link has been found" ... it's "it has been demonstrated that there is no link" - re vaccinations.
  5. Beach bum

    Beach bum Approved members

    Nov 17, 2005
    Same here. My daughter had hand, foot, mouth a few months prior to diagnosis. It may or may not have been the trigger, but it makes sense. Her body was done killing off the virus, and didn't get the memo to stop. It most likely then started killing off the healthy beta cells. If she didn't get the virus, would she still have gotten diabetes? Probably, it just might have happened when she was 5 and had a nasty stomach virus, or 6 when she had a few bouts of strep.
    But, it is what it is and we don't kill ourselves trying to figure out why. We leave that up to the scientists.
    As for vaccines, from what I have read here on the studies Jeff has posted, there is no concrete link between vaccines and diabetes.

    And, sadly, many here were misdiagnosed with other illnesses before the lightbulbs went off in the docs heads saying to check with diabetes. I remember the triage nurse asking me "are you worried about her having diabetes? If you are, don't it's hot out, that's why she's thirsty." A few days later we were being told by our doctor, run don't walk to the hospital, they have a bed waiting for you, your daughter has diabetes.

    Needless to say that nurse is NEVER permitted to have any contact with us from a medical standpoint again!
  6. Lisa - Aidan's mom

    Lisa - Aidan's mom Approved members

    Dec 3, 2011
    I guess we'll never for sure, but DS did have H1N1 right before DX.

    The part that still irks me is that we took DS to the pediatrician on a Sunday w/ the typical symptoms of excessive thirst/urination. All searches on the internet said diabetes. The nurse gave us a script for blood work. We took him for blood work on Monday, didn't get the results until Wednesday when they said take him to the ER immediately, BG was 645. IF I had known better, I should have asked for a simple finger prick test right there in the office on Sunday. I'm not sure how much a difference three days would have made, but he was in DKA when he was admitted.

    You can't turn back the clock, we just have to move forward and do the best we can for our kids.
  7. Caldercup

    Caldercup Approved members

    Oct 8, 2008
    Someone with a genetic predisposition to an auto-immune disease is likely to get some auto-immune disease within their lifetime. A "trigger" illness sets the immune system on high-alert, and that can start the cascade of issues that lead to an AI disease (like multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, hashimoto's thyroiditis, etc.)

    There's nothing a person with the predisposition to an AI disease can do to stop onset (and not all individuals with that predisposition will end up with an AI disease), but they can be prepared to understand the signs of AI illnesses so they can react appropriately.

    In my case, I had MS and hashimoto's when my son suddenly started drinking a lot, lost weight, and looked pale. Even with those tell-tale symptoms, I was surprised when a regular check-up had the pediatrician sending us to our Children's Hospital, where my son was diagnosed with T1D.

    Now, I'm more alert to issues. He was later diagnosed (as was I) with celiac disease. I'll be watching him for any other AI symptoms and hoping that his immune system leaves him be for a breather.
  8. nanhsot

    nanhsot Approved members

    Feb 20, 2010
    The simple answer is that what causes T1 is unknown at this time. I believe it is multifactoral, and I do believe viruses and even immunizations CAN trigger it in someone who already had a predisposition to autoimmune disease.

    That said, my son had a healthy winter, no recent immunizations (none in a decade actually), nothing noteworthy in any way prior to diagnosis. No history of autoimmune anything in our family that we have uncovered. No risk factors, no illness. Just diabetes.

    It's a complicated disease with complex beginnings.
  9. Lakeman

    Lakeman Approved members

    Nov 10, 2010
    The onset of diabetes is a complex puzzle of various factors. We do not at present have enough of an understanding to point to a cause. Even things that are strongly inter-related may be less causative and more of a part of this puzzle.

    I see no reason why the virus your son had could not have played a role. Then again that role may have been small or large, more or less important. By all means it is just not worth it to revisit the past when considering what caused this. Also, vaccines could be something that play a role. Sometimes that role might be negative but it might also be positive (consider that the BCG vaccine is being used as part of a "cure".)

    In science there are generally a lot of studies that hopefully point us in the right direction when it comes to drawing conclusions. Those studies vary in how strong or weak the conclusions we can draw are, how well designed they are, how important they are... Those studies generally will have conflicting results that need to be looked at closer to tease out the answers. Some of the studies will be found to be flawed and some will eventually be refined to get us better answers. What I am getting at is that one should not put an unrealistic trust in a science which is at best incomplete where the prevailing ideas of the day are often laughed at tomorrow. One does need to have a realistic trust in science with all of its strengths and limitations.

    Lastly, the philosophy of science is such that a null hypothesis is postulated and then disproved. A theory is never proved it is simply made stronger until as humans we stop considering alternatives. Additionally, in order for science to disprove global statements like "vaccines do not cause diabetes" we would need to explore a set of data so large that it is virtually impossible. It is easy to say that one particular vaccine fails to be proven to cause diabetes but it is almost impossible to say that no vaccine in any way causes diabetes. Consider the statement "There are no black swans in the universe." To prove this science starts with the null hypothesis "There are black swans in this room" then it disproves it by examining the whole room. Then add in the hypothesis "There are black swans in this house" - then disprove it... We can eventually disprove the existence of black swans in so many places that we can comfortable say there are no black swans at all. Wait, don't we need to examine the whole universe before we can say there are no black swans? Yes, so their existence cannot reasonably be disproven. I used this example because there was a time when scientists said there were no black swans. Then someone found some! Today, a black swan event is commonly used to describe something that is unexpected but turns out to be true.

    Vaccines do carry side effects, often dangerous. They are never 100% effective. Often the effectiveness is quite low. At other times the risk is quite high. (I am not personally aware of a situation for a commonly used vaccine in which both the effectiveness is low and the risk is high for most people) And one size does not fit all. If some person has a situation that makes a vaccine more dangerous to them they should weigh the risk versus the benefits with as much information as they can get. I do not fault people who with full knowledge decide to get a vaccine because they fear the disease more than the side effects nor the person who fears the side effects more than the disease. I would fault the person who makes either decision in ignorance.

    So just what is the connection between vaccines and diabetes? One possible connection is that a person who gets multiple vaccines will shift the balance of their immune system from TH1 to TH2 making their immune system less than optimal and making them more likely to get autoimmune disorders. You could Google "scholarly articles vaccines shift balance th1 th2" to read over 2000 articles that discuss studies supportive of or not supportive of this idea. Anyone who says that science has a clear answer on this would be mistaken.
  10. rakgyk

    rakgyk Approved members

    Jan 25, 2011
    SOme viruses can trigger type 1 in people who are predisposed. My 6 yr old had coxsackie about 1 month before we started seeing symptoms of diabetes. After doing a ton of research online after his diagnosis, we read some strains of coxsackie can be a trigger.
  11. StacyMM

    StacyMM Approved members

    Oct 22, 2010
    My own personal opinion...and it's nothing more than that...is that my kids were predisposed. And since we have 2 kids and both have diabetes, I'm obviously thinking that genetics are at work.

    That said, I do suspect that illnesses were our triggers. About 2 months before diagnosis, DD had scarlet fever. About 2 months before DS's diagnosis, he had chicken pox (for which he had previously been vaccinated.) Ironically, DD got her booster chicken pox vaccine 2-3 weeks before he got chicken pox and it's a live vaccine... :rolleyes:
  12. JNBryant

    JNBryant Approved members

    Nov 10, 2012
    My son had strep prior to his dx. While he had no symptoms of strep, I wound up bringing him in because of the diabetes symptoms. When we brought him to Children's Hospital, the endo there told us that it was the strep that had set the T1 off. We had no prior family history of diabetes at all. We were told that even if he hadn't had strep, whether it be days, weeks, months or years...he still would have developed T1 anyway. That being said, both of my boys have received live virus vaccinations in the past and never had any issues.
  13. denise3099

    denise3099 Approved members

    Jul 31, 2009
    Wait just a sec. How could the virus he had that very weekend triggered his D a few days later? Most kids I hear about have symptoms for weeks or months. Most do end up with some sort of other issue likely caused by the high bs, not the other way around. A body weakened by dehydration with maple syrup for blood is not going to heal well and will be susceptible to other stuff like yeast infections, rashes, maybe even bacterial infections. What bacteria doesn't love to feast on sugar?

    I think it's more likely that many kids get sick b/c they've already started on theri D journey, but even if the virus triggered their D, I can't imagin it happening in days rather than weeks or months. A1c at dx could show this since it records the last 3 months.
  14. JNBryant

    JNBryant Approved members

    Nov 10, 2012
    I agree completely. Of course, I didn't know any better until after I did some research once we got home from the hospital, but the endo there said that it was possible he could have had the strep for a while before I brought him in-hence his theory of the strep setting it off. Of course I can't see him having had it for a few weeks or even a month, so it still puzzles me. Either way, we were told that viruses can kick start the onset of T1. I just think that there are too many factors out there that can contribute, so it's really hard to pinpoint an exact cause. I'm just glad I was able to catch it when I did.
  15. CaitlynGrisham

    CaitlynGrisham Approved members

    Mar 12, 2010
    Me, personally, I was diagnosed under the pretense of Strep Throat.

    I was drinking massive amounts of water, my legs and arms were falling asleep, and I was sleeping far more than I should have been. My mom ended up taking me in to the ER because I was breathing strangely and my breath smelled immensely sweet.

    I was diagnosed the same night that I started taking antibiotics for my Strep Throat diagnosis. For me, there didn't seem to be any sort of direct correlation between my diagnosis and any vaccinations. Oh, and I was diagnosed when I was five and I'm nineteen now.
  16. Olivia'sDad

    Olivia'sDad Approved members

    May 1, 2012
    DD was diagnosed at 14 months and also had coxsackie immediately prior. As I mentioned in another topic, the quantity of new diagnoses that I have seen reported at 14 months of age has had me wondering about the vaccine cycle's effect on the onset. By no means does that mean that I would alter the vaccine regimen that doctor's recommend. If T1 is coming, it's coming...it's not the fault of the vaccine (if indeed my completely unscientific wondering has any merit at all), it's just the trigger to the onset.
  17. zoomom456

    zoomom456 Approved members

    Jan 19, 2011
    Interestingly my son had hand foot and mouth disease at 6 days old, his sister brought it home from school. He was diagnosed with Type 1 at 13 months.

    However, hand, foot and mouth disease is just one virus in the coxsackie virus family. Others in this family cause a nasty cold. Unless the ER doctor specifiacally referenced hand,foot and mouth disease he could have been referring to any coxsackie virus that can make you sick.

    I was lucky that the TEDDY ( The environmental determinants of diabetes in the young) study was participating at the hospital where my son was born. His umbilical cord blood was tested and found to have genetics that made him more likely to develop Type 1. I enrolled him in the rest of the study. Starting at 3 months he had a blood draw that was repeated every 3 months to test for autoantibodies. At 3 months no antibodies, at 6 months 1 antibody, at 9 months 2 antibodies, and at 12 months he had 3 antibodies above "normal" levels. At the 12 month mark a study dr called to give us the results. The other news I got was, your son will have diabetes - it is no longer if, but when. I truly hope my son being in this study finds something useful for the prevention of Type 1. But in his case, there was nothing I or any doctor could do to stop/prevent him from developing D. I also have a friend who has twin boys with Type 1, were tested at the hospital for TEDDY and neither had the genetic predisposition for the study.

    There are tons of studies still trying to find out what causes diabetes and the real answer is no one knows if A+B+C = D . I've heard milk formula could be a possibility, vaccines, lack of Vit D, introducing solids before 6 months , all on top of genetic predisposition. All I know is I have a son with D that was breastfed, followed Dr Sears vaccine schedule, supplemented with Vit D and started solids after 6 months. I have a non D daughter who was breast and formula fed, vaccinated according to the pediatrics schedule, and started solids at 4 months. She brought home hand foot and mouth disease, twice, and has zero auto antibodies.
  18. Anyelday

    Anyelday Approved members

    Jan 3, 2013
    We had Epstein Barr , CMV and coxsackie here in the months before diagnosis. I think it was a stomach virus that sent her over the top into DKA. Looking back I think the symptoms of type 1 had been there on and off for months.
  19. rulestein

    rulestein Approved members

    Jan 7, 2013
    It seems to be a common pattern for medical professionals to drop the ball on diabetes and other autoimmune diagnosis. I had to endure an inguinal hernia operation because of a wrong diagnosis. For my daughter, she had pancreas damage and uncontrolled glucose for at least 18 months prior to diabetes diagnosis. That was clearly demonstrated in pathology reports. We just never caught on during that time because she never exhibited any symptoms. So, just because someone suddenly gets a diabetes diagnosis after an illness, doesn't mean that they didn't have diabetes long before that.

    I grew up with a different autoimmune disease and the treatment was to suppress the immune system and prevent further damage to the organ. I and many others experienced that and elevated immune system from vaccines or even stress would trigger a relapse. More misguided immune system cells floating around meant more damage to the organ.

    The treatment for diabetes is different than other autoimmune diseases. By the time the diagnosis is made, the organ under attack is mostly dead. Treatment revolves around replacing the function of that dead or soon to be dead organ. Because of this, there isn't much data on what can trigger diabetes "relapses."
  20. wilf

    wilf Approved members

    Aug 27, 2007
    You just get it.. :cwds:

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