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Great article on Paleo

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Dave, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Megnyc

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    I strongly disagree with the statement that an A1C in the 6s is bound to lead to complications. But I want to add that it is possible to have a lowish average blood sugar and still have spikes and a relatively normal diet.

    This is what an A1C of 5.3 looks like for me (and I am not saying you should shoot for that-- just want to show you that it includes plenty of spikes):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The average blood sugar in the above graphs is 107 and the standard deviation is 28.

    For the record, I eat around 120 carbs a day that I cover with insulin. I eat another 50-75 carbs a day that are uncovered to prevent lows during running or skiing and because I run my basal slightly higher than would otherwise be necessary. If I am not particularly active I will eat around 150 carbs and all will be covered with insulin. I haven't had bacon in years (my parents never let us eat it because of nitrates) and I ate so many of the marshmallows from lucky charms my freshmen year of college that my friends bought me a bag of "cereal marshmallows."

    ETA: I should also disclose that I do use symlin for any meals with more than 50 carbs. That drastically reduces the spikes and lowers my average blood sugar. I don't think it would be doable for me to maintain such a low average BG without it. However, I really just want to show that you can have blood sugars into the 200s and 300s and still have a decent A1C (even if you do not eat bacon!).

    ETA (again!): Sorry the pictures are so huge. I can't figure out how to make them smaller :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  2. swellman

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    I have a hard time feeling sorry for this guy when the s**t really hits the fan then I remember he has a CWD ... then I'm sad.
     
  3. Beach bum

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    I feel both sorry and sad. Sad for the child because he has diabetes. Sad for the parents because their child has diabetes. Sorry for the parent because they are so focused on A1c, long term issues, and being the food police that they can't see the forest through the trees.
     
  4. DavidN

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    You've been asked, very nicely I might add, by the founder of this board and others to provide citations for this statement. If you cannot, then admit you were wrong and apologize. If you're unable to do either then you are a callous irresponsible egomaniac and please consider going away permanently.
     
  5. nanhsot

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    You are being inconsistent here. Are you touting a No/minimal carb diet or just one that avoids highly processed foods? The first is not recommended for children, the second I can heartily agree with.

    Make up your mind, because your presentation of information is simply confusing, misleading, and quite frankly, misinformed.

    Avoiding highly processed foods is recommended for 100% of the population, diabetes isn't a factor. Eating lucky charms and chips is not something any of us need or should do, that blip you see on G4 for a banana, that happens in all our bodies, just on a smaller and more quickly managed scale.

    Eating a low glycemic diet void of packaged foods is simply good advice. This includes many complex carbs and fruits. Avoid things with a package=good. Avoid all carbs=bad.

    At the end of the day though, I live with a teenager who can climb into his vehicle and drive to McD's. He rarely does, but he can, and I want him to know how to deal with french fries and yep, the lucky charms his college roommate is sharing with him. Better, I think, to model and provide good choices but to prepare them for the bad, because there's a big world out there with choices and options and yummy yummy food. I have eaten paleo off and on, and I choose low/healthy carb most of the time (we won't discuss the holidays.:p ). My son enjoys working out and being fit, and his BG benefits from it. He eats healthy much of the time but he is a normal teen and he has an occasional queso and chip binge and has a mom who loves to bake and sends him HOME BAKED (not processed or packaged) goodies.

    How old is your kid anyway? That's pretty important information for this discussion. It's quite easy to feed a 2 y/o a specific diet, but try that on a 15y/o. Just as it's easy to think you've got it all in hand during honeymoon, it's much easier to control the diet in younger kids than older. I well remember the day when my 5y/o came home from preschool asking for some white bagels like sally had, poor kid had never even SEEN a powdered donut!

    Dave, I truly wish you well. You have no idea what's about to hit you, we've all tried to warn you and we've all cautioned you not to be so dang judgmental because diabetes is still playing nice for you. It won't continue. Or it's unlikely to, there are rare folks who seem to keep making insulin forever. I remember the 5's that first year, thinking it was because I was such a great manager of insulin and diabetes. Hahaha. Aahhhh, fond memories. My son keeps his in the 6's and 7's now as a teen in college and I couldn't be more thrilled. I know way too many teens in the double digits because they simply cannot be bothered and I thank the stars every single day my son isn't rebelling or ignoring.

    I'd be interested in the studies that state 6s are guaranteed to lead to complications.
     
  6. susanlindstrom16

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    If as an adult, my daughter chooses to explore a Paleo (or some other) diet as a way to manage her diabetes, she will have my support. But since she is still growing, we were told by her doctor specifically not to restrict carbs. Nobody here is feeding their kid a steady diet of juice boxes and lucky charms. As far as I can tell I think most people are saying that its important to think about the overall well-being of the child, not just A1C. I don't want my daughter developing eating disorders down the road so that is something I think about.

    When I was a kid I had a friend whose parents would never buy sweets or sugary cereals. When she came over to my house she would eat frosted flakes with spoonfuls of sugar dumped on it!
     
  7. SarahKelly

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    They died anyways.
    This one fact right here is what kicks my arse whenever I dream of an "easy" diet cure to type 1 diabetes in my son and husband. Cut out carbs, sure, okay we can do that - really we can. But in the end the truth is that this doesn't fix diabetes. This doesn't lead to their having perfect blood sugars, perfect A1C's or no need for vigilance during the flu season. This is the type of stuff that parents of newly diagnosed children with diabetes have to learn over and over and over while scouring the internet - there is no fix through diet alone. Our children need insulin, they need food, they need complex healthy diets that help them grow into amazing people that will do incredible things for our world.
    Here is my confession to all of you - when Isaac was diagnosed with celiac disease this summer I felt it was worth the effort to give paleo a try, I mean why not I had been feeding him whole wheat foods that were homemade, full of great fiber, no corn syrup etc and well that didn't do much help...so so we tried. And no there was not amazing BG bliss...instead we found that he had super duper stubborn highs that would come on after hours of eating higher (GOOD) fat meats...and then later when he exercised he would crash. Tank. What then, was I only supposed to give him raw honey, agave nectar, what? Smarties it was! Along with Quicksticks and sometimes a few juice boxes. So, no we weren't thrilled and after four weeks we called it quits. Could we have stuck it out and made it work, probably, but why if it caused so much anxiety in the interim. We now eat a mix of recipes we gained through that experience along with some GF "SAD" recipes - but our diet is anything but sad, it is homemade healthy non gluten-ful foods that fill our bodies up and allow our children to be part of their peer groups. It is a diet that we've found doesn't leave us wanting more or fearful of lows/highs.
    So, Dave when you come on here spouting the "facts" you have to also remember that our children aren't facts - they are our children. If you want to convince people of what is working based on a diet maybe you should tell us how that is honestly working for you? Your family? How do you see that working in the future? When your child goes to college will he be prepared to maneuver through all the options to make the "right" choices for him or will he be unsure without your hand in his meal planning? And is all of this done out of fear or are you helping your child face the facts of type 1 diabetes care with strength and courage.
    Lastly, meet some more adults that have lived with type 1 diabetes for decades. Ask them if they don't mind sharing honestly what their a1c's were in their teenage years, college, etc - and be bold, ask if they have complications. I have met many people with t1d and only 1 of those has had complications caused by poor BG control, the rest like my husband have had A1C's all over the place from their teen years and have no complications.
     
  8. Lakeman

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    I appreciate your defense of the truth and integrity of this site.

    Still on he other side of the coin, there are plenty of comments on this thread and others which contain statements that could be characterized as irresponsible and self righteous. Every one of us by definition believes what we say to be right or we would not be saying it. From my perspective it seems to me that there are plenty of wrong facts being disseminated by a large number of members as well as plenty of right facts. In time I have and will most likely again change my mind about which ones are wrong and which are right proving that I was one of the wrong ones at times.

    I am sure Jeff has his hands full.

    There is so much rejection of members based on them being perceived as wrong or self righteous or any number of traits that are most certainly true much of the time. But if members who were wrong or unpleasant needed to leave based on that criteria or others we would have a dwindling population here.

    There was a time when I saw this forum as primarily a place to share information and learn. But I have a new appreciation for it being a place to support others in a similar situation. Dave is as deserving of support as anyone else regardless of whether or not 100% or 1% of his comments are right or appreciated.

    Can we at the very least leave the Dis-inviting up to Jeff and try to find the positive in each other even when we disagree?
     
  9. swellman

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    Wait ... what? I don't even ... how did I miss this? This is the single most asinine thing I've read on these boards in many months. :crazy:
     
  10. Mish

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    Actually, Dave isn't asking for support. He's telling most of us we are wrong, because he already has it all figured out. Big difference. What good is patting someone on the hand, telling them everything is cool, when it really isn't? Who benefits from that?

    But, no one here can be supported properly if they're basing their decisions off incorrect information. You seem to believe that facts are flexible, and as long as "we" believe what we say to be true, then it must be so. Sorry, the real world doesn't work that way.
     
  11. DavidN

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    Of course. It's Jeff's site and Dave can do whatever he wants. Lord knows I've written many things that have pissed people off. Sometimes I re-think and apologize, other times I do not. I haven't been here long, but I cannot recall anyone swaggering onto the site and saying with full conviction (paraphrasing here) "over 95% of your kids are virtually certain to get complications". The statement is so ridiculously offensive and inflammatory, I merely suggested he really needs to back this crap up or shut up. His actions go well beyond screaming fire in a theater. But if his statements are true, that's fine. Let's see all the research he keeps referring to. And for pete's sake, if his nonsense and irresponsibility is protected in your free speech world, why isn't me suggesting he "consider going away" protected? I think everyone here knows I have neither the admin credentials, authority or right to make someone go away. I was merely venting at a case of blatant callousness and irresponsibility. I've had people tell me to shove foreign objects in my backside. But you wag your finger at me because I ask Mr. 5%-Club-Sh*t-Slinger to "consider going away"? Really?
     
  12. Mish

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    Let me see if I can make sense of it; The two juice boxes that I had to give my child this morning at 5am & 6am to treat his blood sugar of 57 were empty calories and only served one purpose: to raise his blood sugar.

    In Dave's world, that's wrong, we're not supposed to do that.
    In mine, it's correct treatment of a low blood sugar, because my child has diabetes and sadly, sometimes empty calories must be consumed.

    It's statements like those that show how new to this game he is.

    :drool:
     
  13. hawkeyegirl

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    Well, clearly you are doing something wrong, because you had to treat a low BG. Dave is so good at this that he is able to treat the rare, mild lows that his son has with a single strawberry. Perhaps if you were to follow Dave's no-carb, high bacon diet for your son, you would not be in the position of killing him slowly with juice.
     
  14. Beach bum

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    Don't forget the scrambled eggs too, those are really the life saver...
     
  15. funnygrl

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    Serious question. Are bacon and eggs paleo? Didn't having pigs and chickens come after the agricultural revolution and therefore after cavemen? And cured meat was definitely later, no?
     
  16. C6H12O6

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    Do you test for ketones with this diet bc what you are describing seems like a ketogenic diet. Even ketones from carb restriction can cause you to become mildly acidotic
    What does your child’s medical team say about your approach ?
     
  17. C6H12O6

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    I don't think the OP specifically follows paleo. I think he is advocating more of a Bernstein like approach.

    I don't think Bernstein includes fruit which paleo clearly does.

    Bernstein is strict and views cottage and ricotta cheese as a no no. Fruit is probably an egregious double no no.

    Bernstein advocates treating lows with glucose tablets

    http://www.diabetes-book.com/cms/ar.../5175-richard-k-bernstein-md-face-facn-fccws-
     
  18. Beach bum

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    No bacon is not don't know about eggs, but OP feeds his child bacon and eggs daily. It's kind of a running joke because he told someone that parents need to learn to scramble eggs and stop feeding them Lucky Charms.
     
  19. nanhsot

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    I was actually going to come back and mention this so thanks for the reminder. My teenager, on a quest for 6 pack abs, chose a minimal to no carb diet for a season and ended up with large ketones. Luckily we recognized it well before it became DKA but he was at the flu-feeling, stumbling, slurring word point. A child in honeymoon would likely make enough insulin to combat this, but a T1 diabetic child no longer making insulin is at risk. Anytime your body makes ketones, you need insulin. Low carb diets by design cause you to throw ketones. It's a tricky thing to know how much. His blood sugars were not affected, he just had ketones.

    I have personal experience with this and it was an eye opener. He was doing something healthy for his body and almost ended up in the hospital.
     
  20. emm142

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    I think that the strictness of a person's paleo-type diet really depends on why they are doing it, a lot of the time. For example, if being paleo is done for nutritional reasons, anything with the basic nutritional profile of a caveman-food could be acceptable. Some people might eat meat substitutes, for example, in an otherwise paleo diet. They clearly aren't a caveman food, but the protein:carbohydrate ratio is more akin to meat than it is to grains and other foods which are a large part of the modern western diet. Ditto eating meat from farms. Much as the cavemen might have gone and caught their own meat, meat from a farm is nutritionally similar (assuming that it is farmed "naturally", not pumped full of hormones/antibiotics/whatever else.

    On the other hand, if someone is eating a paleo-typed diet because they don't believe that we should obtain our food from mass farming or processing (more of an ethical paleo than a nutritional one), they probably wouldn't include eggs, since we don't get them from wild chickens, or bacon due to curing. That's just my understanding anyway. It's obviously totally impossible to actually regress to being a caveman so all paleo diets are going to include some degree of modification, and different people will do that in different ways depending on their goals.
     

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