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Gary Scheiner's comparison of MM sensors

Discussion in 'Continuous Glucose Sensing' started by Michelle'sMom, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Melissata

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    There seem to be very few people that have tried at least one other system that prefer Minimed. I personally know of a couple that really gave it a lot of effort and couldn't make it worth using. One that I know of had tried to get a Navigator, but couldn't because of new insurance. She left the Minimed in a drawer for a long time, then decided to give it another chance. It still wasn't good for her, and she ended up changing to Dexcom a few months ago. She really misses integration, but loves the Dex. It is a little harder to discount when you actually know the person as opposed to just a stranger you are reading about on a board. My other friend used it for over a year before changing to the Navigator and now the Dexcom for her son. She LOVED the Navigator, but I think now they both love the Dexcom as well. They had a bad receiver at first though and said it was as bad as the Minimed for them. She finally called Dex and they sent out a new one, and there was a huge difference.

    Hopefully the same will happen to him. Dexcom is sending my son a new system, because he started getting a lot of out of ranges again. Two that woke him up last night when it was within arms reach, so less than 3 feet away. If he can't get the new one to work well for him, he may just try the Guardian. He said he was ready to throw it out the window last night. He normally doesn't get awakened by alarms at night, which is also much different than my daughter. He has his high set at 200 though, and hers is at 160.
     
  2. hawkeyegirl

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    Honestly? I'd say that about the Navigator. Most former Nav users on here who SWORE that nothing could compare to the Nav have happily made the transition to Dex or MM.

    I think the moral of the story is that you have to actually try the systems in order to see how they work for you/your kid. They all have their pluses and minuses, and work differently for different people.

    It sounds to me like your son has a defective transmitter or receiver. Hopefully once he gets that replaced it will work well for him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
  3. selketine

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    Well - switching from the Nav is sort of like being made to walk the plank - many of us felt compelled to switch out of frustration about broken pieces.:p
    A working unit is better than no unit I guess!

    It would be interesting to see how people have switched among brands but probably no way to track that.
     
  4. hawkeyegirl

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    Oh, I totally get that. And I have no interest in saying that one brand is better than any other. I truly don't think there is a clear winner. And I 1000% agree with you that a working unit is better than no unit!

    We definitely will trial Dex (and Animas and Omnipod) when our warranty is up. I'm hoping that they will be the new Dex, Animas and Omnipod, but at the glacial speed the FDA is working these days, I'm not betting on it. :rolleyes:
     
  5. selketine

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    The most thrilling thing about a Dexcom is that they can replace broken pieces. I guess the 2nd most thrilling thing is that William is excited for the change. Really that is 99.9% of it for me (or at least should be) - still that little bit of me wonders if the Dex can be as accurate as the Nav.

    I guess I should just order the Dex and find out - ha ha!
     
  6. hawkeyegirl

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    I hope you really like it! I'll be interested to hear what you think.
     
  7. Joa

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    Hello Carol,
    thx for the feedback @diabetescgms :)
    Over all I would say nearly. It is some steps quizzier to calibrate the Dex. Particularly the first one/two times.

    If it is not working reliable after them I would suggest to restart it at day 2 or three, what may meet the point, that Dex useres often write that they get the best data from the Dex after the restart at day 7. Also in the 2nd period of the sensor. (Same hint as with the MM Sensors. With them there should be made a complete reset of the transmitter too by recharging it for some minutes)

    Calibrating while moving BG the Nav is clearly better, as far as I could notice while a 3 weeks comparison wearing both of them.

    I like the DexCom for it's quick action following the BG. Maybe that the Dex is programmed to calculate a bit speculativ, he tends to a lightly overstatement.

    Just staying cool a bit longer longer than with the Nav! The Nav elsewise tends to understatement and likes not to show the peaks.

    If the customizeability of the Dex would not be that poor, it would shurely be a interesting system for me too.

    All in all I have decided to order a new Nav V 1.5 here in Europe (being since 3 1/2 years on the 1.0-10h Nav) and go on wearing it beneath my actual Paradigm Veo.

    And it would be really a pity if Abbott would go totally out of the CGM buiz. :eek:

    Regards
    Joa
     
  8. Melissata

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    And I can testify that there have been NO broken pieces in 16 months now with the Dex. I can't even count how many times we got new transmitters and receivers with the Navigator!!! I am starting the process of getting a new one. I really hope that I don't have to fight with insurance that she may not have any under 55 readings in the last month. That is WHY we have it. I will play their game if I have to, but it makes no sense at all that we will still have to show severe highs and lows in order to get a new system. I was just told this from the rep at Dexcom, but I am going through the supplier and they are going to try to put it through without the under 55. If everyone just keeps telling them what they "expect" to hear, then they will never fully understand the reason people want to use them 24/7.
     
  9. ecs1516

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    We have used all three CGMs, Navigator, Dexcom, and MM for quite some time. Started on Nav in 2008. Our Dexcom's from 2009 still work with no broken parts. And we are rough on them. All three have pressure issues but I find more of it on the MM than the Dexcom. I think because the profile of the seashell shaped transmitter sticks out further on the back of their arm than the Dex.
    Two kids, one on Dex and the other on MM. Wish MM sensors lasted longer. It is nice not having to put in sensor for 14 days for the Dexcom. Most we can get out of the MM is 7. The Navigator was the only one we had broken parts with.
    In my side by side test (two CGMs on same child) the Dex won out just slightly by showing BG movement sooner. At night when BG's are not moving fast this is a non issue.
     
  10. selketine

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    You're very welcome - your posts there are some of the most informative and helpful IMHO.

    Thanks for the details on the Dex - I'm hoping it goes well for both of us!
     
  11. selketine

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    Carol your signature line looks like a "who's who" of diabetes electronics - LOL!:p
     
  12. gsawhney

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    Do not focus just on accuracy..

    My opinion on the various sensors and integrated technologies:


    My Experience: My daughter is Type 1 diagnosed when she was 3.5 years old. She has been on a CGM 2 weeks after she was diagnosed.


    CMG used:

    1) Navigator( used 7 months used along with the Dexcom; Pump: Animas Ping
    2) Dexcom ( 9 months); Pump: Animas Ping
    3) Medtronic Guardian ( 8 months) - used after the Navigator did not have any sensor's to supply);Pump: Animas Ping
    4) Enlite with the Veo Insulin Pump ( 3 months - I get my sensors from Sweden to Canada); Pump: medtronic Veo



    We have used all the systems. My wife and I manage our daughter diabetes using insulin pump and CGMS.
    I am a Engineer and have studied accuracy etc with the various sensors. Most of the sensors are reasonably accurate, keeping in mind the time lag and calibrations (human)
    issues.


    There are a number of things which are more important that a small variation in accuracy.

    There are pro's and cons of each sensor and I can go in detail maybe on subsequent posts. Here are few comments on the latest system we have
    Medtronic Veo with ENLITE


    Advantage


    1) I CAN INSERT THE CMG IN MY 6 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WITH NO EMLA AND NO PAIN. She does not complain. I have seen no blood... I do not need EMLA which I needed for
    the Medtronic Sof-Sensor as well as the DEXCOM. She has a pain threshold somewhere between the inset 90 and the inset 30. i.e she does not mind the pain for the
    inset 90 but for the inset 30 I need to use EMLA.
    This is GREAT No pain for the insertion she does not even twitch. This is awesome. I get 6-9 days from the Enlite. I would not like to use it more that that anyways.


    2) The automatic insulin cut-off: I used to get up in the past with a low glucose alarm on the Guardian as well as the Dexcom. This would happen every second night
    or sometimes couple of times in one night. The basals are tuned good but her activity level etc can make her drift low. I have set an automatic glucose cut-off at 4.2 (about 75).
    I still woke up when Veo beeped that the insulin is going to be cut off but I did not have to wake my daughter up for juice etc. The auto basal cut-off has helped us already
    both during night times and at school...
    Obviously if she is going low because of a bolus and not eating her food this is not going to help.



    3) I calibrate twice in a day 1) after she takes a shower in the morning 2) Before going to bed. In the evening I use the ISIG/BG ratio to callibrate. So I have reduced the number of finger pokes to less than 70 per month. When she was
    not on the CMG we were testing her around 10+ times a day So over 300 finger pokes per month.


    4) Sensitivity to pressure ( if she sleeps in the night)


    Best to Worst ( Worst meening very sensitive)

    Navigator, Medtronic Sof-Sensor, ENLITE, Dexcom


    Enlite is slightly better than the Dexcom but not as resilient to pressure as the Navigator


    5) Bad Sensors

    I have had many Dexcom Sensors which have had the ???. I love the 12-14 days sensor life of the Dexcom but the fact 1/3rd of the sensors lasted 1-2 days was a bummer.
    Dexcom was great. They replaced most of the sensors but the whole process of installing - removing etc has to be done.
    Further the aggravation when you have a good night sleep -wake up in the morning assuming that the kid was fine in the night as the Dexcom did not beep
    - and you see ??? when you wake up - i.e the Dexcom had no idea what the BG was so it did not beep etc.



    I will talk about calibration and accuracy issues next time.
     
  13. Lize

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    For those that use MM Enlite Sensor - do you insert the sensor and only attach the transmitter the following morning? We were told to wait 5 minutes and then attach. Is the accuracy better if you leave it in like that overnight and then put the transmitter on or am I understanding this wrong?
     
  14. gsawhney

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    Lize

    You should be able to connect the transmitter right away. Do not have to wait overnight with the Enlite. The BG/ISIG ratio usually varies during the first 10-12 hours but the sensor has a stabilized BG/ISIG by the 2nd day. During the first day just calibrate at 2,6 and 12 hrs and than every 12 hrs for the remaining 6 days.
    Also keep the ratio of your BG/ISIG in mind
    in Canadian units
    Day one: BG is usually ~0.15 X BG ( i.e ~15% of ISIG)
    Day 2-5: BG usually stablizes around ~0.2 X BG ( ~20% of ISIG)
    Day 6+: This ratio starts to creep up till the sensor expires at day 6

    Hope this helps
     

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