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diabetic dog follow up

Discussion in 'Parents Off Topic' started by joan, May 11, 2011.

  1. joan

    joan Approved members

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    I wrote a few weeks ago about my friends dog and got some great advice. The dog has had d for about 3 months. He weighs 75lbs and is on 22novolinN in in the am and pm with specific food amounts given after. I go over every day to check the dog's bs because it is very difficult for my friend to get blood by herself. We usually check before the dinner shot. The lowest bs we ever got was 384. The numbers hover in the 400's. The vet is very hesitant to increase the insulin. He keeps telling her the high numbers could be rebounds. If it was my dog I would be increasing the insulin steadily over time but my friend is afraid. The dog is so sad and tired. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. Flutterby

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    Well, they either need to back off and see if its rebounds (highly unlikely) or increase insulin.. have they checked ketones (silly question I know, but my friend DOES check her cats ketones with a meter).. I'm sure the dog is tired and has no energy because of the high bg.. My friend doesn't even talk to the vet about insulin dosages, she does it all herself because the vet has no clue.. when her cats were first dx he said give so many units.. never bothered to CHECK to see if that many was ok.. She found a cat board where all the cats had a form of diabetes and they helped her.. maybe there is such a board out there for dogs.
     
  3. joan

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    I also do not believe the dog is having rebounds. The bs is always high. She hasn't checked the urine for ketones in a while but he has lost weight. I feel badly because she is afraid to increase his insulin and the vet has no clue, it seems. I don't want to be responsible if the dog has a bad outcome so I don't push too hard to increase the insulin. I found a website for her but she is still afraid.
     
  4. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    So sad :(

    I wonder if this site would help? http://www.caninediabetes.org/

    I hope your friend can get some help with testing bg so that she can get a better picture of what is going on. And maybe a visit to a vet who does have experience with canine diabetes?

    Good luck, I hope things improve.:cwds:
     
  5. joan

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    Thanks Sarah for the websites. It is sooo sad. The dog is only 9.
     
  6. MReinhardt

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    Joan, I dont have any advice for you or your friend. I just wanted to say "Thank You" for helping your friend out! I'm sure she greatly appreciates it!
     
  7. Christopher

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    I have some really simple advice: Increase The Insulin.

    Consistently being in the 400's, that poor dog won't live to see 10.
     
  8. valerie k

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    she really needs to increase the insulin.

    I have a diabetic dog. Those numbers are way to high. However, common at 3 months. I would reccomend her testing the dog at the first morning feeding. and then, 12 3 6. its those afternoon numbers that are the telling ones. I doubt its a rebound. The dog isnt on fast acting insulin.

    she should at least do a 1/2 increases untill her pooch gets better numbers.

    I have penelope on humalin70/30 that I get at walmart for 25.00 a bottle.

    also, best advice I have gotten, is to feed the dog what it wants and is going to eat, and make the insulin work around that, instead of feeding to the insulin. Penelope gets canned food for her weight and access to dry all the time. she rarely eats the dry. but it is there in case.

    thanks for helping your friend. Its a tuff time working with animals who cant talk. hve her familiarize herself with what will happen if the dog does go low, penelope acts like she is drunk and cant walk. Have fast acting sugars on hand like karo syrup or honey if the dog isnt able to eat. If she takes the dog in the car alot, have a fast acting in there as well. Pks of jelly or honey or cookies.
     
  9. zoomom456

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    Hi Joan,
    I'm one of the vet techs that responded a few weeks ago. A couple of things come to mind. 1) has a glucose curve - where blood is tested every hour for at least 12 hours been done? If not and it would be feasible for you to help with, this would be useful info to show the vet that insulin needs to be increased. If this is not possible, then maybe your friend can ask the vet to draw blood for a fructosamine test. The fructosamine test gives a 3 week average of BG, very similiar to an A1C. 2) Has additional testing for things like pancreatitis, Cushings disease, kidney disease and hypothyroidism been done? All of these diseases can significantly increase insulin needs. 3) I am curious about ketones as well. Ketostix work for dogs and cats;) The interesting part is catching a urine sample. 4) How often does the dog exercise? I mean actual on a leash walking the neighborhood exercise. I don't mean to be cruel, but "my dog has an entire backyard to run all day" is similiar to I have an exercise bike in my house... that has not seen my bottom for a year. Sometimes a simple 20 min walk 2 times a day can reduce an animals insulin needs significantly. For an animal with no energy may start smaller, like 2-punctuation 5 minute walks and build up from there. Let me know if there is more I can do to help.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
  10. zoomom456

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    Also, what breed of dog? Knowing the breed could lead to a couple of other questions.
     
  11. joan

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    Today we did the almost every hour check and the lowest was at noon 384 rest in 400 and 500's. Tomorrow the dog is going in for a cushings test which was done already but the vet said the results were borderline and wants to do again.

    As far as exercise the dog use to get 2 mile walks a day. Now it doesn't have the energy. I told my friend to increase the insulin tonight. She is giving 22 and I am telling her to give 25. She is afraid to increase the insulin without the vets approval.

    This is the sweetest dog. I feel so bad because I think it will be fine with more insulin. It eyes are beginning to look like cataracts are forming and now he walks with a limp.

    Thanks everyone for you responses.
     
  12. vettechmomof2

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    She really needs to speak with her vet and possibly push for either more testing such as a glucose curve or a fructosamine level test.
    Additional testing would be good as well but those need to be done. Your friend needs to either get comfortable talking with her vet about the health of her dog or find another vet that she feels comfortable talking with.
    Your friend also needs to take in the readings that you did to her vet to show the numbers but also have marked when the dog ate as well.
    Good luck!
     
  13. valerie k

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    as I said, SHE needs to get comfortable dealing with the insulin herself as well and not just have to rely on the vet. I would at least have the dog at 24 for 3-5 days and another round of retesting.

    as for the cataracts, its pretty much a given. Blu developed them fairly quickly after he was diagnosed. Penelope-is different, becouse she is a true-blue type 1 diabetic dog. (diabetes since puppyhood) and not getting it in her elderly years. She is now almost 7 and has a good start of them. Trust me, it doesnt affect them at all.

    I would reccomend the other tests as well. But you helping her do the curves at home is awesome, not only $$$ wise, but day long vet visits stress out the animals, and that also will affect thier levels.

    best of luck to her. That canine diabetes web site is an awesome place for her to go.
     

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