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Best Vitamin D Supplement for kids?

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by forHisglory, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. forHisglory

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    *This*.....explains the role of Vit D in immune regulation. Why its worth looking at as part of the puzzle.
     
  2. Theo's dad Joe

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  3. Beach bum

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    Our clinic does it yearly. But when we had the severe deficiency they tested at 6 months also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  4. forHisglory

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    Reading this study, "Ziegler et al.2 reported that administration of 1, 25-(OH)2D3 in newly diagnosed patients with type 1 diabetes can protect the function of pancreatic islet β cell effectively."

    It seems pretty plain that supplementing those with T1D and those at high risk for developing T1D is a no-brainer......thanks for the additional material!
     
  5. forHisglory

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    And, then there is this study to the contrary........now, I'm really curious to have my children's levels tested and also to find out what DS's level was at diagnosis.

    "No Difference in Vitamin D Levels Between Children Newly Diagnosed With Type 1 Diabetes and Their Healthy Siblings: A 13-Year Nationwide Danish Study."
    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/9/e157.full

    And, this intervention study has been completed and presented in June 2015. "Vitamin D and the “Honeymoon” Period of Type 1 Diabetes."
    http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/...on-period-of-type-1-diabetes?contentid=146302
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  6. Ali

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    Adult here, looking at studies as a T1 for over 40 years. I am a very educated, bright T1 since age 16, all these studies are so hard. When I look at research, I look for number of participants, number of years, how well done the research was, then wait for more studies. I hate to say it, but many studies the first 10 times out, are not well done or well controlled. It really, is really really hard to do good "pure" research. Just food for thought. Ali
     
  7. Theo's dad Joe

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    The first study is pretty meaningless. It looked at serum levels in kids with T1D and "healthy" siblings.

    1) We don't know that anyone had therapeutic intake levels
    2) We don't know if serum levels determine the proposed effect (fat soluble nutrients like omega-3s for example are stored in fat, providing a bank for future needs)
    3) We are already describing the siblings as healthy meaning that their status may be genetic. If we take a sibling WITH genes for T1D and put them in an environment that yields T1D they would have likely not gotten into the "healthy" cohort. Of course! a sibling may have similar vitamin D-levels so their absence of T1D already suggests a lower probability of the genetic prerequisite. Also these are families that already have a T1D diagnosis and that could alter the family's behaviors (to increase vitamin D intake but too late to help the first diagnosed individual).

    (The first 2 points though are really stand-alone.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  8. rgcainmd

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    Having your child's Vitamin D, 25-OH level tested is a lot less invasive and less expensive than a liver transplant. Food for thought.

    Please read (and re-read) Ali's post #26 above. WORDS OF WISDOM.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  9. forHisglory

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    I think what all of this really boils down to is we need to take a tropical vacation mid winter every year...... or better yet, move closer to the equator. I would be curious to know Alis opinion on these studies, as I'm sure after 24+ years of observing studies she has formed one. But I also see from previous threads this topic has been discussed at length. I will update once lab tests are back from my end.
     
  10. Theo's dad Joe

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    I have been reading up. I find nothing about liver toxicity related to vitamin D like you find with retinol or possibly E. Very high levels lead to calcium buildup which concerns me somewhat because calcium has a is a key role of the development of arterial plaques in humans, and also dementia (odd because those are both related to diabetes) though demineralization can also raise blood calcium, and vitamin D can prevent or reduce demineralization. Some interesting stuff you asked about regarding how larger doses don't produce proportionately larger blood levels. Also reference range for blood is up to 100 ng/ml without it being considered hypervitaminosis. Also 3000 IU considered below any health risk for kids 4-8 and 4000 for adults and other study suggesting that these numbers are set conservatively low. Also 30 minutes of sun exposure yields 10,000 IU.

    http://iom.nationalacademies.org/Re...kes-for-Calcium-and-Vitamin-D/DRI-Values.aspx
    Current zero harm levels 4000 IU per day

    Some other possibly useful information:

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2088694-overview
    (reference range for 25(OH)D is 20-100 ng/ml)

    https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/
    Very high levels of 25(OH)D can develop if you:
    • take more than 10,000 IU/day (but not equal to) everyday for 3 months or more. However, vitamin D toxicity is more likely to develop if you take 40,000 IU/day everyday for 3 months or more.
    • take more than 300,000 IU in a 24 hour period.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10232622
    Because vitamin D is potentially toxic, intake of >25 microg (1000 IU)/d has been avoided even though the weight of evidence shows that the currently accepted, no observed adverse effect limit of 50 microg (2000 IU)/d is too low by at least 5-fold.

    http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/features/the-truth-about-vitamin-d-can-you-get-too-much-vitamin-d
    John Jacob Cannell, MD, executive director of The Vitamin D Council, notes that the skin makes 10,000 IU of vitamin D after 30 minutes of full-body sun exposure. He suggests that 10,000 IU of vitamin D is not toxic.



    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/6/862.short Vitamin D raises blood levels but with plateau effect. D stored in adipose for later use (may be good or bad).
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...xpert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 Taking 50,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950664/ Low D related to many liver diseases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  11. forHisglory

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    From reading previous threads last night, I think the skepticism surrounding Vit D supplementation comes from previous claims that "mega doses" of D3 can lead to reversal of D (simple cure) from a previous member. That's ridiculous and wreckless info. However, another member (Lantusfriend) reported toxicity even supplementing at recommended levels and had to stop completely. Don't know what the case was there. Basically though, the accepted reference range is up to 100 ng/dl so if my children test at 30ng/dl my question becomes....is it reasonable and safe to supplement so they are at the upper end of normal since they are at increased risk for a couple autoimmune diseases? I also saw that several endos recommended that parents give 2,000 IU/day to their cwd.

    As far as the sunshine absorption, the body can discard any excess that it produces and does not need. You might know more about the metabolism process there Theos Dad, but my understanding is that even though the body makes xxxxxx amount it doesn't necessarily "keep" all of that- which is why one cannot form Vit D toxicosis to sunshine?
     
  12. Theo's dad Joe

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    I don't know any reason why vitamin D would be discarded more easily if it was made in the body from precursors with the help of sunlight, or if it was consumed in active form. Maybe there is a reason, but if anything, I would think that the body has MORE ability to regulate D that is still behind the gut barrier.

    Ragarding paragraph 1: The levels set by the IOM were based on the concept of zero health hazzard. Most journal articles I've see suggest that these levels were conservatively low, by 5-10x. Remember too that the requirements were developed only to keep 99% of the population from developing Rickets, or prevent a disease state, not to provide for optimal health.
     

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  13. forHisglory

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    The mechanism is different. In short, "during ultraviolet exposure, the concentration of vitamin D precursors produced in the skin reach an equilibrium, and any further vitamin D that is produced is degraded." Pulled from prelim info on Wikipedia.

    The non-simple jargon: Prolonged sun exposure does not result in the production of excess quantities of vitamin D3 to cause intoxication. The reason for this is that, during sun exposure, the previtamin D3 that is formed and the thermal isomerization product vitamin D3 that does not escape into the circulation absorb solar UV radiation and isomerize to several photoproducts that are thought to have little activity on calcium metabolism.
    From http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/6/1678S.long?view=long&pmid=15585788

    Point is- max safety levels cannot be established from the sunlight/UV levels since not all of that is absorbed. My only point there. I do see the low toxicity and max thresholds for each age group that you mentioned/cited.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  14. Theo's dad Joe

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    That makes a lot of sense. Basically the uv both creates and destroys active vitamin D. The more that becomes active, the more likely that the active form gets hit and deactivated or degraded.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  15. forHisglory

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    Weird joke then.
     
  16. SarahKelly

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    We use Rainbow Light Sunny Gummies Vitamin D3 1,000 iu. Typically I only have them take 1 a day if they've been outside for at least a few hours throughout the sunny parts of the day. But in the Fall, Winter and beginning of Spring they take 2 a day. Isaac's GI suggested it for him after CD diagnosis and my older son's pedi feels it is a good thing for him to take too with our family history of autoimmune disorders and living in the every gray Pacific Northwest.
    :)
     
  17. Theo's dad Joe

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    This study shows a correlation of T regulator cells (the ones that shut down autoimmune activity) to 25(OH)D levels up to over 100 ng//dl, though the correlation looks higher up to about 100 ng/dl.

    "Conclusions/Significance

    These results show an association of high 25(OH)D levels with an improved Treg function, and with skewing of the Th1/Th2 balance towards Th2. These findings suggest that vitamin D is an important promoter of T cell regulation in vivo in MS patients. It is tempting to speculate that our results may not only hold for MS, but also for other autoimmune diseases. Future intervention studies will show whether modulation of vitamin D status results in modulation of the T cell response and subsequent amelioration of disease activity."

    I'd like to find this review: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21104171
     
  18. Lakeman

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    I wanted to answer your question with a little bit of research behind what I say. You will find a lot of people on the internet telling you that their supplement is best for a variety of reasons. Some will tell you that theirs has no fillers, or colors, or GMOs, no heavy metals, or provide the best form of the nutrient, or the most accurate amount.

    First if in your regular diet you do not avoid fillers, artificial colors, or GMOs then a tiny little bit that would be in a pill won't add up to any more than you are getting regularly anyway.

    Clearly we should all avoid heavy metals and the reports I have seen on the internet all tested brands of Vit D pass without having heavy metals in them.

    It does not seem to matter what form of the vitamin you take. I have preference for vitamins from food (or sunlight in this case) but I see nothing wrong with taking pills when that makes sense. Most Americans do not get enough Vit D and that has only gotten worse as we eat less fish and use more sunscreen. Getting vit D from fish without too much heavy metals seems like a good idea especially since for best absorption it should be taken with fat. If you are not eating sardines or anchovies then just make sure you are also eating foods rich in healthy fat when you take a vit D supplement.

    If you are taking 2000 IU per day then does it really matter if on one day your pill actually delivers 1500 and on the next it delivers 2500? However, if your pill is regularly delivering 3000 IUs when you thought you were taking 2000 that could be an issue. Capsules and tablets are the least accurate and drops are the most accurate - I bet they are the most expensive too. If I were taking 1000 IU per day then I would not care. At 2000 IU per day I would want to make sure I didn't get overdosed.

    Vit D can interact with other medicines for good or bad so do some research based on what else you are taking. Vit D can also cause one to retain too much calcium which in turn could lead to hypercalcemia. Probably not a good idea to take a vit d supplement with calcium added to it unless that is your goal.

    Know the sypmtoms of too much vit D or too much calcium and of course talk to your doc. Otherwise it probably does not matter which one you take so by all means buy less expensive brands.
     
  19. forHisglory

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    Thank you very very much Lakeman! I definitely don't want my children (or myself) having calcified organs :D and I'm still researching this too in preparation for our upcoming appointments. Thank you again for those very helpful thoughts and info.
     
  20. forHisglory

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    Very interesting info.....compiling it with the other studies I've found. Thank you!!
     

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