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A parent's observation on diet and insulin sensitivity

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Lakeman, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. C6H12O6

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    Can you actually show me something that says metformin causes kidney damage? All I can find is references to metformin and Precautions with Renal Impairment, as in metformin is counter indicated if you have poor kidney function.

    My endo is very contiencious and advised me of the risk of pancreatitis with januvia. She is really very thorough and I think she would have mentioned something like that. Also metformin is approved for use in children. They make a liquid suspension and my pharmacy once gave me raspberry flavoured tablets.

    Anyways if you can find me something that says metformin causes kidney damage please let me know.

    You want to nip the insulin resistance in the bud with females because it is linked to developing PCOS in T1s.
     
  2. Kaylee's Mom

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    I actually could not find anything saying it can cause kidney damage and had I not know someone taken off of it for that reason I would not have thought to have mentioned it to my endo. They did not SAY it will or could cause damage but that yes, they would have to monitor her kidney's. I took that to say it WAS a possibility. And on either case would like to try other things before putting her on a medicine ...

    Crystal
     
  3. C6H12O6

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    Honestly, I think it is just that you cannot take metformin if your kidney function becomes poor as a result of diabetes. I have my kidney function tested every time I get my a1c done.

    Metformin is a very common type 2 med, type 2s are prone to develop kidney disease because they also have to tend to have high BP which leads to kidney damage.
     
  4. Kaylee's Mom

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    Very well could be .. I am just saying for me and my daughter I would rather try other things before we need to put her on another drug. No judgement towards anyone else on it ...

    Crystal
     
  5. Lakeman

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    I have taken vitamins/minerals/supplements for myself for a variety of reasons over the years and they do sometimes carry side effects. The ones that are a normal part of an everyday diet - not so much. Something like soy isoflavones (anti inflammatory) can be pretty potent and really wack things up.

    I do think that synthetic substances can have some pretty large side effects. natural things can too. But if it is something that is natural and has been used in several cultures over hundreds of years then there is a kind of "collective" experience about the safety of it. Not foolproof and everyone should do some extensive research on line. Personally I think everyone should research every food they eat. Regular everyday sugar is great to treat hypos but also suppresses ones immune system. Raspberry tea can mess up your hormones, or help. Nitrates might increase ones risk of cancer, but protect you from botulism, etc... meanwhile the synthetic products have been tested in a lab (not necessarily better, sometimes better, clearly different) but our total experience is along the lines of a few years or maybe even months.

    So is metformin more likely to harm ones kidneys than turmeric? Where does the harm come from when it happens: from the part of the drug that has the active effect or from some other part? I am betting that turmeric does not have this effect but also think it is well worth researching and testing for during clinic visits.
     
  6. Lakeman

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    I just checked online. Cinnamon works in the same way as turmeric - by upregulating AMPK. Does it have additional positive effects? It sure tastes better. For anyone researching cinnamon there are two major kinds: Cassia and Ceylon

    How much cinnamon would one want to equal turmeric? Could one stack the two by combining both in one recipe?

    P.S. calorie restriction also upregulates AMPK. It seems that the number of foods, drugs, and activities that upregulate AMPK is pretty abundant so I would not myself worry about upregulation of AMPK in itself. There could be cause for worry from other actions of foods, drugs, and activities.
     
  7. Lakeman

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    The fudge definitely has a bitter undertone. I am planning to double the batch (except for the turmeric) but cut it into squares twice as large. Each square will have twice the carbs (sweetener) but the same amount of turmeric. Hopefully this will cut the bitterness. It might also allow me to use the recipe as originally intended - a faux chocolate bar. The harder bar would travel better.

    Selenium is one of the supplements that scares me. Almost all of us need more of it but kids are just not very good reporters of side effects.
     
  8. Kaylee's Mom

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    Well for my daughter as we were trying cinnamon we also tweeked her diet .. at dinner I have not been serving a starch .. no potatoe, pasta or rice. Her numbers have been great. Or much better .. we actually have to decrease her insulin in the morning .. waiting for the endo to let me know how much. So is the cinnamon working? No idea really when we are adding the changes with diet and exercise. But I love hearing what others do and the research they have done. Thanks!!

    Crystal
     
  9. Bigbluefrog

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    Curious what side effects? She took it for a short while, due to her scoliosis. It can be helpful for connective tissue issues. (tight muscles pulling the spine out of alignment)


    I may try this cinnamon to see if it helps her bg numbers to stabilize.

    I find her numbers are like a rollercoster. All over the place, and basal testing is not fun for anyone. As soon as we get it all figured out, balance the basals and boluses....it changes.
     
  10. Lakeman

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    Here is a quote from a source online:

    "Taken at normal doses, selenium does not usually have side effects. An overdose of selenium may cause bad breath, fever, nausea, and liver, kidney and heart problems. At high enough levels, selenium could cause death."
    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/supplement-guide-selenium

    Excess selenium is removed by the kidneys but if one takes more than can be removed it can build up to toxic levels. Selenium is found in virtually any food that is grown in soil or eats food grown in soil, and also seafood - but usually at levels too low to be of benefit or harm. However, it can bioaccumulate and in certain instances build to toxic levels. Selenium used to be found in soil at levels that were of benefit but in many parts of the world the soil no longer contains adequate amounts. This is why I said earlier that most people need it. It is found naturally in Brazil nuts in high enough amounts that one should eat no more than one Brazil nut per day.

    In short, many people probably need to supplement but should do so with full knowledge and under the care of a doctor who knows something about supplementation. We have all seen the disclaimer that something should be done under the supervision of a doctor, imo, in this instance that is no lip-service.
     
  11. Lakeman

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    Good luck with the cinnamon.

    I can see how it might reduce highs when they are due to the liver putting out glucose or IR. It is harder to imagine how it might reduce lows. Maybe because less corrections would be needed? Maybe if the liver is not putting out glucose it would not be re-stocking its supply and maybe that would reduce lows? Just guessing. The first ten results on a google search for "cinnamon hypoglycemia" resulted in nothing useful or that would indicate that it would reduce lows.

    We had roller coaster numbers when we ate a diet consistent with the ADA's guidlines of low fat high whole wheat. On that diet any fat she ate above 9 grams caused a spike and the wheat violated the "rule of small numbers". Now she drinks whole milk and regularly consumes fat with far fewer spikes, and eats little bread which by itself results in a much lower carb diet consistent with the rule of small numbers. By no means does she eat a low carb diet or one similar to Berstein's. It is just a diet with sufficient fruits and vegetables (6 servings per day), meats (three per day), and fats (mixed in with everything else). She rarely eats a meal or snack that does not contain each of the three major food types (protein, fat and carbs).

    [edit:] Just discovered that my google engine was set to search only books. That might explain the lack of results. Trying again: Very mixed results - questions, anecdotes, some sites say "yes" others say "no". No site that I personally thought was credible.
     
  12. lisanc

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    Very interesting thread ... thanks Lakeman for posting your results.

    We have been having some highs in the morning so I am also going to try the cinnamon ... I heard that the Ceylon is better for this purpose ... do you know?
     
  13. Lakeman

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    Well some more time has passed and these are my observations now:

    My daughter continues to have less highs and now is usually within range when she wakes up or at AM snack time. This is a wow for us since these have been our worst times. I have changed the breakfast ratio from 1:6 to 1:8 which makes life easier for all of us. I am changing the am snack ratio today because the school has been giving her lots of carbs between snack and lunch to avoid lows. We have even had a few days where every reading is within range.

    She has been eating the faux chocolate twice per day now and has grown tired of it. I did try one batch with stevia instead of sugar and she really hates that one. Today I am going to try adding the turmeric to some a gingersnap recipe I found on food network. It also has cinnamon and ginger in it so I guess we will see what the addition of those two spices do. Hopefully the heat from baking it won't effect it.

    In any case I am wildly impressed and pleased with what turmeric can do.
     
  14. mmgirls

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    bringing back my question, because 1:8 is still a very low ratio.
     
  15. Lakeman

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    Thank you for asking again.

    Oh boy have we tried playing with every conceivable combination of basals. In general if I increase the nighttime basal even by a small amount she would go low during the night yet still go high sometime in the morning. I don't know if anyone else's kid is as sensitive to the amount of lantus but even a change from 3 units at night to 3.3 units will set in motion a downward trend that continues up until morning. Likewise just a small amount less than three and the trend is rising numbers. The basal is one of those areas where pumping would help us.

    So to answer your question directly we have done the split dose the other way and it unfortunately did not work. The basal simply does not effect dawn phenom enough to offset the morning rise. Now if we had a pump we could set it to automatically give more basal in the morning - whlch would help on the days she goes high in the morning but would cause lows on the days when she does not or goes high later. We simply don't know which days there will be dawn phenom or at what time it will hit.
     
  16. ashtensmom

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    We have had luck with tumeric and cinnamon too. Also have great simple recipe for it. Sprinkle tumeric and cinnamon in sweetened almond milk and froth the milk with cappuccino milk frother until warm. Taste like pumpkin spiced latte!
     

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