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Your Thoughts on China's Stem Cell Educator Therapy Clinical Trial

Discussion in 'Research' started by Turtle1605, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Brenda

    Brenda Junior Member

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    I know the article was unrelated. I merely posted it to show that others are attempting to use stem cell therapy and it does not necessarily work as planned.

    This article is more pertinent: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25043077
     
  2. joshualevy

    joshualevy Approved members

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    That article has nothing to do with Dr. Zhao's techniques, either. Brenda, I think you are confused about what Dr. Zhao is doing. You seem to just be searching for the words "stem cells", but there are many different stem cell techniques, and they are wildly different from each other. Dr. Zhao's treatment does not involve injection or infusing stem cells into the patient. Instead, the stem cells are used as a source of bioactive chemicals. But the stem cells used in the treatment are never put into the person with type-1 diabetes. Both the articles you linked to involved putting stem cells into people, and this is the more common technique, but it is not the technique that Dr. Zhao uses.

    Joshua Levy
     
  3. sszyszkiewicz

    sszyszkiewicz Approved members

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    What do you think Joshua? His daughter is seeing a 50% increase in cpeptide over the 3 or so months since the treatment (1.24 to 1.86 according to his post).
     
  4. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    We have not seen too many lows . The Lows are bg of about 70 t0 80 . Again it is very difficult to monitor all parameters such as food intake, mobility and exercise, glycemic nature of the food, the period between food intake ..... What we see is that she has not complained about any discomfort or being sick . I do not see too many corrections, I also monitor the fasting BG (around 107) . She has gained and again lost two or three pounds . Happy and cheerful girl . Not concerned about type 1 diabetes . She has an appointment with the local doctor on Sept 30th . I am sure we will run more blood work and especially C peptide . This will tell us more

    bijanrad
     
  5. joshualevy

    joshualevy Approved members

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    I'm on vacation right now, and too sun-baked to have an opinion about much of anything, except the weather and the surf. :)

    My memory is that healthy-normal fasting c-peptide is between 0.5 and 2.7 ng/ml. So this is pretty much in the middle of that range. On the other hand, this is during the honeymoon phase, so it is very hard to know if this has to do with the treatment or just the luck of the honeymoon.

    Bijanrad: I want to thank you for posting all this information! The longer you provide such good data, the better it will be. Having 1.86 c-peptide 6 months after diagnosis is one thing. Having that same number 18 months after diagnosis would be even stronger news. So I hope you can continue with your updates.

    Joshua Levy
     
  6. Pavlos

    Pavlos Approved members

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    Bijanrad, this thread is truly groundbreaking; in the 7 years sionce my daughter was diagnosed, this is the first time I see clinical proof that is actually promising!

    Please update us on how things are going. Wishing the very best for your daughter!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Approved members

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    I personally like to keep things in perspective and realistically manage expectations. Type 1 diabetes has been cured in mice, but most people see that for what it is. Something that is nice but doesn't really change things in a practical day to day management perspective. The child in this thread is newly dx and it is possible that her current state will change as time goes on and the disease progresses.
     
  8. Pavlos

    Pavlos Approved members

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    I see your point, we need to be sober and avoid premature enthusiasm, correlation does not imply causality, etc., but in all honesty I am not aware of any other kids on honeymoon with such dramatic improvements in their A1c and C-peptide.

    (P.S. I see we both joined on Nov. 2007...)
     
  9. sszyszkiewicz

    sszyszkiewicz Approved members

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    I am just thankful that people are willing to take a chance, and in this case travel far, for the benefit of us all.
     
  10. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    We will see a local endocrinologist on September 30th. We will ask for the repeat of C peptide . Hopefully , we will have good new to share. Thank you for your kind comments
     
  11. StillTypeI

    StillTypeI Approved members

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    Bijanrad, any updates from your daughter's September 30th endocrinologist appointment?
     
  12. pdx_dc

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    yeah, please let us know, Bijanrad
     
  13. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    I need to share that the local endocrinologist is not supportive and skeptical. She says that some patients have a real long honeymoon period . But we are not deterred and only believe in hard facts and test results .
    Here are the results : A1C : 5.2, C Peptide: 1.49 ng/ml , Proinsulin: 26 poml/L

    Speaking with Dr Zhao. He remains optimistic. Have not noticed any major change in amount of insulin or fasting blood sugar . The encouraging number is AIC . Dr. Zhao is not concerned about the slight drop in C peptide. He explains that C peptide is like blood pressure and may wary day to day.

    We will continue monitoring and share the results . bijanrad
     
  14. joshualevy

    joshualevy Approved members

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    Thanks very much for keeping us all in the loop!
    If you're comfortable making public the information, can you answer these questions:
    Has your daughter's insulin usage changed in the 7 months since treatment?
    What is her fasting BG number?

    As far as I can tell the three numbers you report are all normal (for non-type-1 diabetics), so that is good news. Although, since she is still in the honeymoon time frame, it is hard to know how good.

    Joshua
     
  15. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    Sure. The BG fasting is between 105 to 120 , The insulin intake has remained unchanged for the past ten months
     
  16. NelleRain

    NelleRain Approved members

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    I have three sons - two with Type 1 diabetes, ages 21 and 26 (diagnosed at 6 and 7); and one without - age 23. The one without is currently in China and has been there for the past 6 months teaching English and has become fluent in Mandarin. He will be coming home soon, but travelling back to China again next year. I am really thinking about having one of my sons apply for this study and go with him. He would be able to get him to where he needs to go and since he speaks Mandarin, would be able to communicate with the medical staff. I'm just not comfortable about the safety of the study and if it will even work, and the costs are of concern to me as well. I'm am wondering why the U.S. doctors are skeptical. What are they telling you? Anything other than she may just have a long honeymoon. Any response from you will be appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2014
  17. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    NelleRain: I have read your questions. Frankly, I still do not know if the treatment is working or my child has extended "honeymoon period". The US doctor that we see dose not like the treatment for number of reasons: a) she indicated that the study by Dr Zhao did not include "control" group or a group of patients that did not receive the treatment yet they were part of the study. Although I remember that Dr. Zhao made reference to the Control group in one of his conferences here in the US.
    b) she is concerned why the patients have to spend any money and this should all be free. I personally do not have problem with the cost as the treatment received was based on our request with the understanding that this treatment was not labeled as "Trial".
    c) She is also concerned about the safety of the procedure. In this regards she is correct. The procedure has inherent risks: These include infections with any agent from the stem cell, blood clot, other blood born illness ... of course the hospital carefully screened the stem cell . But the risk is always there .
    So far our child has remained stable with insulin use and other test results . And she is healthy and happy all around . We have been thinking to take her back for the 2nd treatment . But I think we will wait pending on confirmation of more test results about efficacy of the treatment .


    I wish I could give you a definite answer. Before we signed up for the treatment, we spoke to number of researchers in this field . I should not list their names due to privacy issues. Some of them were supportive of the idea and some were not.

    The fact that your son is in China is a big help. He can travel the to the hospital and speak to the medical staff. He can demand to see the test result for the group study. Talk to them about the time table for treatment . Ask questions about the safety and follow ups with the large number of patients that have received the treatment....

    Best wishes bijanrad
     
  18. NelleRain

    NelleRain Approved members

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    Bijanrad, You are doing a great thing here by keeping us posted on your daughter's progress and explaining to me in more detail about this trial. I really do appreciate it and hope you will continue to provide updates. And I am so happy that your daughter is progressing and her insulin dosage has not increased. I think I will check with my son's endo and get feedback from him and will wait and see how your daughter progresses. Thank you again for the information and please keep us updated.

    Blessings to you!!!

    Nellerain
     
  19. MLT2014

    MLT2014 Approved members

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    If you can disclose the following info., it would be great. Does your daughter counts carb prior to eating? Can she eat whatever she wants? Also, was it really expensive to travel to China? Was it hard to get to get around for foreigners?

    Thank you
     
  20. bijanrad

    bijanrad Approved members

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    Hi Yes she does count the carbs . She is careful about what she eats . She stays away from hi carb foods. Travel to China was not expensive. We had no problem getting around . People are very nice , helpful and some of them know enough English . Thanks
     

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