- advertisement -

Vaccines

Discussion in 'Other Hot Topics' started by Becky Stevens mom, May 10, 2010.

  1. Charlotte'sMom

    Charlotte'sMom Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,215
    First of all, there are statistical studies that say the opposite. And because statistics generally can manipulated to say whatever you want them to, they don't hold a lot of weight for me. I'm not saying this is the case with those studies.

    However, when you have studies where mercury is injected into mice in a pattern similar to what children receive with the vaccine schedule, and the mice develop autistic-like behaviors, that bothers me a lot. Plus, there are a host of other studies that show what mercury and aluminum do to the body when injected. Just because most kids don't show any immediate symptoms, doesn't equal "safe" IMO. And it certainly doesn't prove that long-term damage isn't taking place, especially when you start piling on the vaccines.

    I've read a lot of different stuff in a lot of different places, and I don't have anything in front of me to cite from. I don't think the epidemic of problems we're seeing these days, including ADD, ADHD, autism, allergies, asthma, etc can be attributed to just one thing. But I definitely think that vaccines play a part and a lot more research needs to be done. I personally feel better delaying and spacing vaccines out and only doing those that are most important (and I get to pick which those are for MY kids) than giving into this idea that if we can create a vaccine for it, then why the heck not add it to the schedule? There haven't been enough studies to prove that the current schedule is safe, especially when there's enough out there to seriously question it.
     
  2. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I think I'm going to cut my losses and bow out of this conversation now - for several reasons. Most importantly, the PBS documentary pretty much summed up my views on the subject - I really don't think I have any more to add. I admit the documentary did not delve into the specifics of every vaccine and I do think there are some vaccines that deserve further discussion. However, to the topic of vaccinations in general I have to defer to this documentary. To be honest I was unaware of its existence until posted here - otherwise I might have just posted the link and said "There you go.".

    Secondly, I honestly do not think any more discussion on this topic, in a general sense (start another thread on specific vaccines and I might play), will result in anyone changing their minds. There's a LOT of confirmation bias with this issue and I am no exception. I tend to think I have mine more in check since when I read a lot of counter arguments to the "vaccine-sensitive" crowd I recognize a lot of disdain and little respect for the opposing views. Although I have to admit I haven't see anything with a "lack of basic respect" as that of the caricature of the "pro-vaccine" movement leaders portrayed around a Thanksgiving table eating a dead baby like I did in at Age of Autism.

    [​IMG]

    Lastly, I think there's a very important difference between myself and those on the flip side of the discussion and that is this: I am fully prepared to change my position as soon as reliable, peer-reviewed and repeatable data withstands scrutiny. I can't say I believe the same for those on the other side. So ....
     
  3. SueM

    SueM Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    380
    I understand why you would bow out of the conversation... I feel that way a lot as well... :) I guess it does show how divided people are on the topic. You are saying that the Frontline program summed up your feelings on the topic and I'm thinking... Bummer, he's missing the medical "experts" and science-based people from the other side. Oh well...

    As for the picture represented... I don't think it's all that different from those who would appreciate the "Jenny McCarthy Body Count Website" or those who say that people who question vaccines are essentially responsible for the deaths of many babies (due to preventable diseases coming back) or whatever.... Same type of thing, different point of view.
     
  4. thebestnest5

    thebestnest5 Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,001


    Dr. Bernadine Healy, I believe, echoes more parents' voices than the over-portrayed, irrational, hysterical, internet-opinion-reading, mommy-with-a-cause that wants to villainize vaccines.
     
  5. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I Googled her and read some of her stuff - she seems like a voice of reason. I haven't read elsewhere, meaning the "pro" side, to see what they think of her.
     
  6. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I was in error - it appears AoA has not moved past MMR and thimerosal as I stated.

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/...p-who-and-merck-engaged-in-pseudoscience.html
     
  7. SueM

    SueM Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    380
  8. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    Whooping Cough

     
  9. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    Saw that in today's NY Times and wondered about the level of non-vacinating families in the community and how they must be concerned.
     
  10. Lisa P.

    Lisa P. Approved members

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,380
    I'm sorry for the deaths of those children.

    I personally feel pertussis vaccines are safe and useful and ethical. I am open to the possibility that I am wrong.

    But, for the record, this outbreak was not about middle class soccer moms opting out of vaccination. This was about a population that did not choose to get their kids vaccinated for other reasons. It is not a moral or medical objection, it is cultural and economic and opportunity and fear issue.

    In the community I lived in that had a pertussis outbreak it also was not about families opting out of vaccinations. It was about vaccine efficacy wearing off after a few years and adults not getting boosters. Can I ask the adults here when their last booster for whooping cough was? If we want to elliminate this disease (effectively) through herd immunity, we need to see the whole herd.
     
  11. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    I said nothing about the "why" people might be unvaccinated. Not sure why you feel the need to put words in my mouth. But, in all truth, I'd rather you didn't.:rolleyes:
     
  12. Lisa P.

    Lisa P. Approved members

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,380
    Well, I didn't actually attribute any speculation to you, to be fair and scrupulous about the whole "words in mouth" thing. :rolleyes:

    This thread has had big chunks in which parents who opt out of vaccine programs are blamed for a number of ills and the opinion has been expressed that they are threatening the herd immunity and endangering other peoples' children. I think it's fair of me to tag your link with a disclaimer that this story has nothing to do with that, really, and doing so doesn't necessarily mean I am saying that was your intent in posting.

    However, in the name of honestly, when I read your post I did not read it as concern for moms in that community that have chosen not to vaccinate. I do, to be honest, still have a hard time seeing that as the only intent of the post. That's unfair of me, and since I'm always going on about how you can't read the minds of people just from reading their posts on a forum, I need to curb myself and leave behind a thread where I find myself incapable of trusting to the simple good intentions of the people who post opinions in opposition to mine.

    If you say you posted only to express concern and to wonder about the reaction of the parents in that community who now have kids who might get sick, I certainly believe you, and you have my apologies.
     
  13. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I agree with pretty much all of that.

    However, the reasons are irrelevant, in my opinion - the disease is indiscriminate. Certainly you are not suggesting that those who opt out are somehow not affected by the outbreak or shouldn't be concerned? I think Sarah's post was right on target as I, too, wonder what the middle class soccer moms are thinking.
     
  14. SueM

    SueM Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    380
    The beauty of everyone having their own personal beliefs is that middle class soccer moms all have differing views on many topics. So, I'm sure that the soccer moms are all over the place in regards to what to think of this outbreak. Although, no matter what... when babies die (no matter what the reason) it is always quite sad.

    I do remember a few years back we had a lot of talk (on tv, newspapers, etc) about a pertussis outbreak. It was front page news for a few weeks and of course the topic of vaccines was on the front burner. I remember it well because my youngest (about 2 or 3) at the time was not vaccinated with the DTaP (still isn't). Of course, I worried. Of course I thought long and hard about it. As it turned out, weeks (maybe months later... can't remember), they carried a story hidden on page 500 of the newspaper (slight exaggeration) that upon further testing, the cases involved in the outbreak of pertussis were not even true pertussis cases. Not saying that this is the case here... I have no idea but it is one of the reasons why I don't really trust newspaper articles in regards to this matter. Never mind, the entire H1N1 scaremongering...

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5633a1.htm

    "This report describes two hospital outbreaks and one community outbreak of respiratory illness during 2004--2006 in New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Tennessee that were attributed initially to pertussis. However, subsequent investigations revealed negative or equivocal laboratory results and epidemiologic and clinical features atypical of pertussis, suggesting that pertussis was not the cause of these outbreaks. The findings in this report underscore the need for thorough epidemiologic and laboratory investigation of suspected pertussis outbreaks when considering extensive control measures".
     

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice