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Vaccines

Discussion in 'Other Hot Topics' started by Becky Stevens mom, May 10, 2010.

  1. StillMamamia

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    So, for those not in favour of vaccines (in general), what's your stand on the seasonal flu vaccine?

    Personally, neither myself nor my kids have ever gotten it. DH always has. Our ped thinks we're nuts for not vaccinating the kids, especially our son with D. Our endos...well, I get the feeling in their committal arguments, they don't think it's 100% necessary.

    Neither DH, nor myself or the kids have gotten the recent H1N1 vaccine. Reason? We felt it was hype, scaremongering (sp?) and so recent that it had not "proved" itself (in our opinion) yet. Unlike the other vaccines.
     
  2. thebestnest5

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    Your posts seem to be drawing a lot of conclusion into someone else's motives for posting a question.

    The question that you keep referencing does not imply stupidity; you are implying that's the meaning with quite possibly your own emotional take on it.

    I didn't speak to my first child's pediatrician about vaccines, and I don't feel that Sue's question was calling me stupid.
     
  3. SueM

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    The funny part here is that I was honestly asking if you saw the question mark simply because it was a question and not a statement as you had claimed. But really, it doesn't matter. I apologize if it came across as being rude.
     
  4. thebestnest5

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    Our pediatrician and endo did not specifically recommend it. And, we also have 2 children who have allergies to at least one ingredient of the flu shot.

    Our community got the vaccine late into the season, too.

    None of my immediate family received that vaccine last year.
     
  5. Karenwith4

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    Answering in reverse order....
    The snark isn't directed solely at Lisa in this thread. I'm all for good natured ribbing and I have engaged in it myself. I'm not so fond of dismissive sarcasm, or pointed digs related to people's religious beliefs That seems to point to a lack of basic respect as far as I am concerned. I've been the target of your sarcasm before and I'm really not interested in going there with you.


    Em's just turned 9. She was diagnosed at 6.5. We made our vaccine decisions years ago when my oldest was an infant and our research led us to believe we should do our best to lower the toxicity load on our kids and on our environment as much as possible.
    We're on a continuum like many people. Our beliefs and decisions are evolving as we get more information and see more connections. Some of these decisions I wrote about were made a decade or more ago and some have evolved out of other issues - being a single income family for the past 10 years means making wise choices financially. Volunteering in enviromental causes has made us more aware and committed to trying to live more sustainably. Becoming more aware of what we as a culture are doing to our bodies and our environment and to our community means that we don't make our family decisions in isolate from those factors. We make these choices because we believe it is important to live our values. They weren't based on Em's diagnosis but they have evolved since, in part because our knowledge is evolving.


    I don't know what factored into Em's diagnosis. I have 1 cousin with a kid with T1 and my husband has 2 cousins - so there may be genetic component but I am not sure that is statistically relevant as we both have large extended families. Em was my only kid to get any formula (she's a twin and had trouble nursing in the early days). She's my tallest and heaviest (although not overweight at all) and I think that formula factored into that. It's also one of the markers of kids who develop t1.
    I homeschool my kids and use an out of town dr so have no real idea of whether there are local clusters that might point to isolated environmental
    factors.

    I absolutely think environmental factors play a role. I think genetics, food choices, physical and emotional stress levels etc all play a role.

    hope that helps.
    Karen
     
  6. SueM

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    Yes, I do Becky. I try to take small steps to limit toxic exposure all around. I am not perfect in any stretch and while I try to buy organic when possible, I don't always go that route (and I'm sure that you're right in regards to even organic having issues) ... I also try to cut down on more toxic cleaners, etc... And yes, I'm definitely concerned about the pesticide issue. (I wish my husband were as concerned... he's the yard guy).

    I know from experience that generally speaking those who believe in a vaccine link (to autoimmunity, autism, food allergies, etc) are also very concerned about many of these issues. It isn't as if it's *only* vaccines. I think that some of us just can't understand how - generally speaking - the medical community can come out and seem concerned about pesticides, toxic cleaners, etc etc... and yet, vaccines always seem to get a free pass.
     
  7. SueM

    SueM Banned

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    Ugh.

    For the record, I believe that I said that you were not literate on the topic of vaccines. That came about after you had made some mistakes in regards to different vaccines which made it appear (perhaps wrongly) that you didn't know all that much about the topic. I also believe that I said that after you had commented about questioning the morality of those who chose a different path in terms of vaccination.

    Let's not rewrite history here.
     
  8. swellman

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    I re-read the entire thread and, with the exception of perhaps the last 24 hours, I feel this is undeserved but I admit my bias.

    As for "pointed digs at people's religious beliefs" you have completely misinterpreted my intentions. I believe what you are referring to was my post on the trustworthiness of "science" and my intention was to say that there are those that have some very differing beliefs compared to some widely held scientific views. It was my intention to use those examples to illustrate why I thought some people had difficulty trusting "science" and to also illustrate that it would be very difficult for anyone to provide an argument that would result in their distrust to move towards trust. In other words: I can understand why people with vastly differing world views than that of "science" distrusts "science" on other matters.
     
  9. Becky Stevens mom

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    When Steven was first diagnosed we did do the seasonal flu shots for a couple years after. I havent had him or any of us get the flu shots recently nor have any of us gotten the H1N1 even though ive had to deal with a great deal of advice (harrassement) about that from my MIL. She would NEVER and I mean EVER in her life say no to a vaccine that her doctor suggested she or her grandchildren get. So therefore I am not supposed to question her or her doctor either. But I still do;) (Im a BAD, BAD DIL:cool:)
     
  10. Karenwith4

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    This thread is not the only place that I have encountered these kinds of comments from you.

    You called it a dig yourself.
    Are you now saying that I misinterpreted?
    I got your point about world views and science. I'm not a creationist and don't follow that world view. But I don't think it is acceptable to mock it either. Given that you do think it is okay, I am less inclined to share my own beliefs about anything with you or trust your motives.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2010
  11. swellman

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    Yes, I said it was a dig. That dig was aimed for Lisa P - we banter - we PM in fact. To be honest, at this point, seeing as you are hell-bent on bringing baggage from elsewhere into this thread and accusing me of mocking religion when I clearly stated in a previous post that the philosophical conflicts were contextual to the issue of trust, not mocking, and since you clearly chose to dismiss that explanation I can only assume you are posting to stir the sh*t and I really couldn't care less what you think of me. Do yourself a favor and put me on ignore.
     
  12. Lisa P.

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    I appreciate folks who are not institutionally religious (would that be the proper way to phrase it?) being defensive of those of us who are.

    Personally, I kind of take the religion stuff in this thread as being so far from understanding the thinking of the religious in general and fundamentalists/ creationists in particular as to be beyond addressing. That's not a dig -- or even a banter -- it's just when someone totally does not get a frame of reference but is trying, it's kind of like watching someone try very hard to speak a language he doesn't know to someone he is trying to be nice to.

    So I let the religion stuff go on account of that. Yes, the flat earth stuff is insulting, but I think insult kind of requires knowing what you're doing, if that makes sense, and my assumption is that this is not the case.

    I guess we all have different lines, personally I think there are approaches I would not take myself but that I feel don't cross into territory where I feel the need to stand up. I tend to think if something is in good humor and not angry or mean-spirited it gets the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes it's hard to tell on the computer, no matter how many smilies attach.

    Again, I'll say for me I will protest when someone attacks the person and not the argument (ad hominem), rewrites another's argument to strengthen the case against it (strawman), or tells someone they have no right to speak (have not even got Pig Latin for that one). Also not fond of judging people on a personal trait based on group affiliation that has nothing to do with that trait (bigotry). I think it's fair to protest when this happens here. I'm sure I get it wrong sometimes, I'm sure I'm inconsistent, I'm sure I'm sometimes guilty of the above myself. But I'm also pretty sure it'd be hard to make a case against the intention to protest those problems.

    For the record, "implying" any of the above is not enough to raise my dander. Implication is very, very often in the eye of the beholder.
     
  13. Karenwith4

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    Thanks Lisa. This was very gracious.
    I have some dear friends who are creationist and while I don't know that I will ever wrap my head around their world view - I think I am just not wired that way - I would in no way want to communicate that their deeply held beliefs deserve to be treated with any less respect than my own.

    Swellman, fwiw, the reasons behind why our family makes the choices we do are deeply intertwined with our world views. I'm not trying to stir the pot nor am I "bent" on anything. I was just responding to your question about why I don't feel motivated to explain it to you.
     
  14. swellman

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    That was, exactly, the point I was trying to make in the original post on trusting "science". I explained that, I thought clearly, after you called me out on it and yet you continued to accuse me of mocking and having a lack of basic respect. Maybe the (what I meant to be a friendly) Flat Earth dig towards Lisa P. completely poisoned my point and if I could have thought of and included other world views that wasn't tied to religion that conflicted with "science" it wouldn't have looked like I was singling out and mocking religion.
     
  15. Lisa P.

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    Went back and reread. I think it was a genuine effort to be open minded.

    Swellman, where that looks insulting is that the implication is that Christian faith stands as an alternative to science and reason. Most Christians believe that Christianity encompasses reason (of which true science is a subset), that reason is created by God and nothing God does contradicts true reason but the world has more than that, also.

    So your particular example did bring its own issues, which I think distracted from the fact that that particular post was kind of an olive branch? Bummer for you. :rolleyes:

    Karen, thanks, please don't think I claim to speak for any other person as regards religion. The folks I know who are creationist in bent have a sense of humor and patience with how their viewpoint can be misunderstood, so I figured no harm, no foul. I did know where you stood, but didn't know how to "label" that! I'm hoping noninstitutional Christianity wasn't insulting? When I have to put a "label" on someone to facilitate discussion, I try to use the term that person would like applied, but of course it's easy to get that wrong since I'm not in the other person's shoes.

    Wow, I'm awfully off track here, but my posts are really easy to misunderstand because of my bassackwards way of writing and wanted to be clear as I could.

    Now back to your scheduled programming.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Flutterby

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    I'm not drawing any conclusions..
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2010
  17. Karenwith4

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    Hi Lisa

    "Not institutionally religious" made me laugh.
    It's hard to pin an all encompassing respectful label the non-believing/spiritual-not-religious/humanist/athiest/agnostic/polytheist/UU crowd.
    You did good. ;)
     
  18. swellman

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    I never meant that. I was conceding to your point that some people have trust issues with "science". I realize that there may be many reasons but the only ones that popped into my head at that moment were, unfortunately, religious. I said, in a later post, that this was understandable since any fundamental difference between "science" and a particular world view casts aspersions on "science" and that my strategy, to argue from the authority of "science", was flawed and that overcoming that flaw in some people might be quite difficult.
     
  19. kiwikid

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    I'm not pro or anti vaccine. My older 3 are fully vaccinated. Rachel has only been vaccinated against Tetanus (since dx) because of a Mummy Gut Instinct that vaccinations wouldn't be good for her.

    We don't get the seasonal flu vaccine because we aren't a family susceptible to the 'Flu'. We get the occasional cold, but never full blown Influenza *touch-wood* . This is probably because of our remote location and hermit tendencies but I don't feel like 'bringing flu in'.
    They also didn't get the Meningitis vaccine when it was rushed through here a few years ago... A vaccine which has now been discontinued in the NZ schedule.
     
  20. OSUMom

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    Is the meningitis vaccine recommended for students living in dorms at a large university in NZ? We're coming up on the option here for younger son entering college in August. It's interesting to know what other countries do on this.
     

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