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The Rage Is Not About Health Care

Discussion in 'US Health Care Reform' started by Ellen, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. hawkeyegirl

    hawkeyegirl Approved members

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    Is it possible here that when Karen is talking about "your best interests", she is talking about the best interests of the whole, whereas Lisa is talking about her own family's best interests? They're two entirely different things, of course, and I wonder if that may be some of the source of disagreement. (Although I suspect that given all information, Karen would probably say UHC is in Lisa's family's best interests, and Lisa would probably say that UHC is not in the best interests of the whole, so maybe this little thought is completely irrelevant.)
     
  2. Karenwith4

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    Thanks for trying to explain your rationale to me.
    :)
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  3. Karenwith4

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    LOL my apparent lack of empathy and imagination :p leads me to believe that Lisa and I come to the idea of what is "best interests" in this article from different perspectives. I'm coming at it from the perspective that best interests are the sort of overarching criteria from which I will make a big decision with long term implications. If I am talking about making a decision about what is in my children's best interests I tend to take a broader, longer term view about the implications of that decision and I assumed that we were starting from that same premise, but I am not sure we are.
    I appreciate Lisa trying to explain her position. I still am having trouble understanding the rationale behind it as she's chosen not to layout her arguments that UHC outcomes are not in her best interests and the arguments she has made seem to me anyway to support the premise of the article.
    Perhaps thats the fundamental issue. Democrats /pro-UHC I talk to assess the UHC decision on one set of criteria and Republicans/pro-current system/anti-UHC assess it on another set.
    I wonder if there will be a common ground found.
     
  4. Karenwith4

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    LOL you can leave it Lisa. I'm just ribbing you.
    I have a thicker skin than that.

    I don't believe our inability to understand each other comes from much more than starting at different assumptions and not seeing the logic in each other's arguments.

    I'd like to understand but using my imagination or empathy won't help me see the logic in your position. They are two different realms in my opinion.
    I'm not offended that your opinion on my short comings is different than my own. :p
    Karen
     
  5. Lisa P.

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    That is funny.
    Nope, here it all goes. I can't swear there wasn't any validity to your taking it as insulting -- I know you were being humorous and I know your skin is thick, but the intent is not to insult and if there's a shred of validity to even the joke that it was insulting, it's out of here.

    I think I can see the logic in your argument. I think I can understand you, perhaps not as deeply as I should, but I think I get where you are coming from. I don't think you are evil or psychotic or lying -- I just think you are mistaken.
     
  6. Karenwith4

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    Hey we agree! :D
    Have a good day
     
  7. Lisa P.

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    How's this work for you?

    If you do not understand a man you cannot crush him. And if you do understand him, very probably you will not.
    --G.K. Chesterton
     
  8. frizzyrazzy

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    I can't tell if we're hugging here, or fighting. ;)
     
  9. Brensdad

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    That's how you know we're family.
     
  10. Becky Stevens mom

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    Yep, gotta have some of both. But always love and respect:cwds:
     
  11. frizzyrazzy

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    this is like Friday night pizza night with my family. We yell, we scream, we call each other names, we drink a few drinks and then we eat food and within 2 hours we've all changed sides of the argument just so we can keep it going LOL.
     
  12. jendean

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    I am of a very different opinion. I think the rise of the internet has allowed people to investigate stories, become more informed and make thier own decisions on what to believe.
    When we rely on general TV news to give us info, we have to remember that we are relying on what a very small group of people want us to know.

    There is good and there is bad to the healthcare reform, but I think it makes perfect sense, and it is tough to argue against the concept that when insurance is privatised, companies, and CEO's do not make money when they pay out.
    End of story.
    Capitalism at its finest.

    I am all for capitalism, but not when it comes to health. That should be a basic human right.

    Ok off the box now

    Thank you
     
  13. SueM

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    I think that having the government controlling the Healthcare system will bring its own issues. For those who think its bad now... Just wait. :) (That's my negative nelly side coming out... it may be just wonderful...)
     
  14. frizzyrazzy

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    I don't understand this argument though - the government; local, state and federal "controls" many things already, and does quite well:

    highway system
    nasa
    national parks
    higher education
    the Military
    the treasury
    the FAA
    the FDA
    the court system
    public libraries


    I could go on and on. I see the government doing a lot of good, for a LOT of people.
     
  15. Becky Stevens mom

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    Exactly, and doing what we pay for in taxes. I dont see it as controlling but doing for the people that have hired (voted for) them.
     
  16. SueM

    SueM Banned

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    I would rather not have the government involved in every aspect of my life... thank you very much. Public libraries? Whatever. Healthcare? No thanks.
     
  17. SueM

    SueM Banned

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    Oh yeah... one more thing... You are putting the treasury on your list of things that the government runs well? Since when? :confused:
     
  18. Karenwith4

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    Can I ask why?
    We have UHC and medical decisions are made by my family and my doctor. I don't consider the government to "be involved" in my health care other than paying for it and I'm curious about what concerns you.
     
  19. frizzyrazzy

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    well, in that I know that if I take a dollar bill out of my pocket that it's 1) a real dollar bill and 2) that it will be accepted anywhere in the US

    by and large, it's a very efficient organization - other than in recent times.
     
  20. frizzyrazzy

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    but this is my point - the government already IS in every aspect of your life. From telling women what they can do to their bodies, to telling people who they can marry. The government already is "there" in lots and lots of different ways, some that I might find objectionable, and some you would find objectionable. I just happen to disagree with the basic statement that I hear tossed around that the government is a f-d up mess and can't do anything right.
     

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