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The Rage Is Not About Health Care

Discussion in 'US Health Care Reform' started by Ellen, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. swellman

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    I did read the closed thread - pretty much the entire thing again and several others and I can't remember where the law has been examined in the context of diabetes.

    Instead of raging on legislation that's already placed into law how about you put your considerable knowledge of the law, having been one of the few, I imagine, who have read it, and post over in the Summary of Health Plan thread so Daryl can update the original post with information that's either missing or inaccurate?
     
  2. Brensdad

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    Well, I have posted over there a few times.

    I like to get into the technical merits of the bill over there, and the more ideological debate that seems to be developing here. The technical side of the bill is difficult to debate without the context of the ideological conflicts, and for simplicity's sake I am moving more toward keeping them separate wherever possible.

    Besides, I know that with Karen and you, this will not devolve into issues such as abortion, religion, Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin. While these topics are relevant to the debate, albeit marginally, in reality they serve only to distract from the rather important issue at hand.
     
  3. Brensdad

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    No need to sneak in or out. You can be in charge of checking for weapons at the door though. :D
     
  4. StillMamamia

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    If only David Hume could chime in on this issue.:p
     
  5. Miike

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    Universal health care is the ideal. Costs vary person to person. Minimal cost for me to live includes food, shelter along with insulin and delivery system. Then in an instant last December I fell and broke my leg and had to depend on people demanding money for services. A good system of health care is about health care and not about " insurance". The insurance industry seems to be the accepted means of channeling funds to pay for costs of health care. I feel we should pay for the cost of health care for those that cannot afford it. I do not want to get rich while poor and sick suffer and die. We must factor in first that people in need be taken care of. We will care for our sick and elderly that cannot pay or care for themselves.

    Human needs are not rights. BUT as I stated on the locked thread, Human needs such as food, shelter and health care must be of a similar parity to human rights. We can be denied rights but being denied needs can kill us. We should have a fair health care system that takes the burdon off the sick and poor.
     
  6. Miike

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    Originally Posted by Miike
    Health care should be treated as a right. It is not that easy to define as freedom and human rights. Freedom and human rights are free and health care needs have a price and vary from individual to individual. As we claim equal rights, we are not equally endowed with perfect bodies or in possession of equal wealth
     
  7. Brensdad

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    So if a healthcare "need" becomes a healthcare right.....

    Would you ever think people would be denied the right to water? Happens all the time. It's a finite resource that is routinely rationed by government in order to control demand.
     
  8. Flutterby

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    Of course the CEO of an insurance company is going to say premiums will go up.. its called a scare tactic.. the fact is NO ONE knows what its going to do to do insurance companies and businesses..

    There are parts of the bill that state an insurance company will NOT be able to charge a certain amount OVER what they are paying out in costs.. so it'll control premiums. Right now insurance companies do not have to disclose what they pay out in medical bills because there is no regulation for that. But with this new bill they will HAVE to declare how much they pay out in actual medical bills and will NOT be allowed to change over a certain percent in premiums.. This percent will allow for proper profit, and overhead, but it won't be so out there that they are making trillions of dollars off healthcare premiums.
     
  9. Sportsrep

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    Hi folks, long time reader of the forums. Don?t post often cos in the UK, but have picked up loads of helpful tips and advice over the years, thanks.

    I thought you might all be interested in a UK perspective and I have to say, at the risk of sounding like I?m sitting on the fence, that I think Nick and Darryl are both right.

    Our system definitely has the potential to increase the divide between the haves and the have-nots because those who can afford to pay for private heath care (not least our politicians, of course!) can thereby jump queues to get quicker treatment.

    On the other hand, even the poorest members of our society can access a basic level of healthcare which includes access to GPs and emergency care which is assessed on clinical need rather than insurance/ability to pay.

    The biggest issue with our system is, of course, that we can?t afford it. With an ageing population, a difficult economic climate and better treatments for once fatal illnesses the NHS as it currently works is not sustainable financially. So I suspect we may have to adopt some sort of payment/insurance scheme before too long, but with an election looming none of our political parties want to tackle the issue?

    PS My ?qualifications? for posting are T1 for 19 years (triggered by the stress of planning my wedding and honeymoon ;) ) and both kids (son, 13 and daughter, 11) also T1. I use MDI, the kids both pump.
     
  10. Karenwith4

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    No Palin/Beck bashing?
    Now where is the fun in that? :p

    Just popping in to say I will come back to this - just swamped with the kids' stuff at the moment.
    Have a lovely long weekend everyone (whatever you are choosing to celebrate.)

    Karen
     
  11. SueM

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    Thanks for that take on things. It appears that the UK doesn't have money trees either. Unfortunate. ;)

    When you hear from those who are for this Healthcare Reform, you typically don't hear about how we are going to sustain this type of reform? It's always... look at Canada, look at the UK... they both have Healthcare programs for all. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, there are the honest questions about how these programs will/can continue in such bad financial times.
     
  12. My_Dana

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    We are also a small business. And it is insane the juggling we do to keep health care
    cost 'manageable'. To me this should have been number priority in health care reform.
    What's in the 2016 pages to address the out-of-control rise in cost?

    I'm all for making coverage available to the uninsured.
    BUT.. any guess as to what will happen to these rises when 32 million more people are added?

    Is this the reform we wanted?
     
  13. saxmaniac

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    Go up less? Well, it depends how healthy they are.

    Realistically, we have no idea.

    I heard that Anthem has said that the huge rise in CA was caused by people dropping insurance due to the bad economy. They said less people having insurance = smaller pool to spread risk across = higher premiums in that pool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  14. StillMamamia

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    The only thing which I see will cause problems is the economic crisis (No kidding, Sherlock!:p). If, by what the PP posted, people are dropping insurance because they can't afford it, then yes, the HCR comes at a bad time.:rolleyes: But when is a good time for something so badly needed?

    However, the HCR per se is for sure, as with all starting reforms, filled with loopholes, which will be amended over time. Insurance companies should thrive, because those who can afford it, will buy additional and more precise coverage.

    Lawyers will have a ball with this one too.
     
  15. SueM

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    Sounds like a great plan! :eek:
     
  16. StillMamamia

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    Tsk! Tsk! You didn't quote my first part where I said what is the right time for something so badly needed?;)
     
  17. SueM

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    That's true. I didn't. :D

    I guess there is no 'right time' for such major reform but maybe there's a better time than when we are already on the brink of bankruptcy.
     
  18. StillMamamia

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    Yeah, but who's really thinking about that, when it's so much more fun to discuss the HCR?;)

    However, it all ties in - those who can't afford health care right now, need health care right now, not after the economic crisis is over

    So, between a rock and a hard place, perhaps the latter is the better place for the moment, in order to help those who have the rock falling on them as we speak.

    And, as someone else mentioned here or on another thread, people who are more satisfied (feel their "needs" are being taken care of) or in better health generally contribute more to a society, so maybe there is hope for you guys.:p

    ====

    I hereby reiterate that I think you guys need the HCR. It is not normal for a country whose reputation (and power) affects the rest of the world, should not provide basic health care for everyone.

    And no, you're not going to become "socialists". That's only good for small, rather homogenous countries.:p Communism is for the bigger countries (nope, you guys are still too small).
    Can't remember much from Montesquieu to post further.:D

    I have no idea what my point was...

    ETA - don't read too much into what type of system is better for what size countries....it's an ironic statement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  19. Sportsrep

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    If it?s of any consolation to people on CWD boards, the UK?s NHS system (universal health care, socialised medicine whatever you want to call it) works brilliantly for those with T1 diabetes, particularly kids.

    My two have regular appointments with their endo and 24/7 access to a DSN. Their pump supplies come direct from the manufacturer ? we have a 24/7 hotline which we ring and order stuff from, it turns up the next day without fail and the manufacturer invoices the doctors directly without involving us at all. We get around 600 testing strips a month from our GP on a repeat prescription ? this amount has never even been questioned, let alone refused.

    We even get to queue (line) jump at GP or A&E for medical matters unrelated to the diabetes such as sports injuries because of their potential affect on blood sugars.

    Of course our healthcare system has loads of problems and issues which need addressing, but in all honesty I can?t fault the diabetes care my children receive.
     
  20. oskar

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    Yes I agree with Sportsrep (same thing, also long term reader, occasional poster and member of the UK mailing list). At the moment we have a utilitarian system; not perfect but greatest good and all that...but from 2011 we ARE facing a massive deficit. All parties are in lockdown mode and not really saying a lot (until after they are elected). As a parent I AM worried about the future of people with longterm health conditions. I think most people in the UK who have thought about it anticipate some change.....

    This is a report; Dealing with the Downturn the Biggest Challenge for NHS Managers, title says it all really.

    http://www.nhsconfed.org/Publications/Documents/Dealing_with_the_downturn.pdf
     

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