- advertisement -

The Rage Is Not About Health Care

Discussion in 'US Health Care Reform' started by Ellen, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. Brensdad

    Brensdad Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,383
    Check out how the CBO originally "scored" Medicare and Social Security. Guess they were a little off. Musta missed a decimal place or two, LOL.
     
  2. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I think it much ado about nothing. It will be cleaned up and/or dealt with if it hasn't already.
     
  3. pinkpanther

    pinkpanther Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    135
    http://www.healthcarebs.com/2010/03/29/aetna-ceo-health-premiums-are-going-up/

    AETNA CEO: HEALTH PREMIUMS ARE GOING UP

    "A couple of days ago I highlighted the President?s oft-repeated promise that Obamacare would reduce annual health insurance premiums by $2,500 for the average family.

    For anyone out there who actually believed that BS, I recommend this interview with Aetna's CEO, Ron Williams. When asked if insurance premiums will go up, he provided this unequivocal response:

    The answer is yes.

    And what will cause premiums to go up?

    Significant additional taxes the industry will ultimately have to pay in the first year.

    In other words, Obamacare imposes a whole menu of new (and immediately effective) taxes that will produce HIGHER insurance premiums instead of the lower ones promised by the President.

    What about Obama's promise that people with good insurance wouldn't need to worry about unwanted or unnecessary changes? Sorry, Williams has some bad news on that front as well:

    Things will change. You might not have a plan that includes the exact same doctors. You might pay more for benefits you may or may not want.

    These benefits you ?may or may not want? will derive from Obamacare's coverage mandates. All health plans will now be required to provide government-mandated benefits.

    This means that there will be a one-size-fits-all benefit package that will include such things as maternity coverage for single males and hair pieces for folks who aren't bald.

    For more details on the idiocy of benefit mandates, read my piece in the American Spectator. But the bottom line here is that they jack your health insurance premiums up.

    So, at a time when Americans are very concerned about the high cost of health care, the President and his congressional accomplices have rammed through a reform? bill that makes the problem worse.

    That's a change you WILL believe in, like it or not."
     
  4. pinkpanther

    pinkpanther Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    135
    Nope, is this where I put in some personal insult and then a *rolling eyes*?
     
  5. pinkpanther

    pinkpanther Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    135
    Hmmm....it seems like the majority of Americans aren't happy with this:


    Why Democrats Who Voted No On ObamaCare May Still Lose

    "Two new polls out from Rasmussen today suggest that even Democrats who voted against health care reform are in serious danger of losing their seats. The first shows that 54% of respondents favor repealing ObamaCare, essentially unchanged from last week."

    http://blogs.investors.com/capitalh...rats-who-voted-no-on-obamacare-may-still-lose
     
  6. Miike

    Miike Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    I have type 1 diabetes. Diagnosed in 1968 at age 14. Sorry not to introduce myself in the other thread that just got locked up.

    Love each other. Wealth is created by the working class. Wealth is liquified into a thing called money to flow into and remain in the hands and control of the rich. The problem with insurance is that it costs money. People want money for things and people do not have money for things. Banks need working people to remain poor and in debt. It is so embarrassing when so many in the middle class get played like a 3 dollar banjo and fight the sick and poor while the banks and corporations sap thier wealth.
    End war. Close wall street.
    Grow food.
    Build shelter.
    Help everyone in need.
     
  7. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    Hi Miike, how's the beach today? :cwds:

    Lovely post.;)
     
  8. Becky Stevens mom

    Becky Stevens mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,719
    Thats why you are my friend. You dont need alot of words to say so much:cwds: Its supposed to be 80 here in CT this coming weekend, hope its warm there too so you can get out for a walk on the beach
     
  9. buggle

    buggle Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    There are two things that we must use to live in this society. One is healthcare and the other is banking. Both industries gouge the hell out of us, because they are essential services, but they have been allowed to do anything they please without limit. Although the rest of us are being hurt, in some cases destroyed, by both of these industries, the few people at the top keep accumulating more and more wealth at our expense -- not playing fairly or decently. If there are no regulations, we see what happens.

    We have to get back to sane regulation.

    And you need to grow a beard, tie-dye some bandanas and chill. :p
     
  10. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    I am not gouged by my bank. I believe I pay a fair amount, actually way more than fair, for the services I get from my bank.
     
  11. buggle

    buggle Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    They gambled away many peoples' retirements and nearly collapsed the entire world economy with their greed. I watched a site called Bank Implode -- http://bankimplode.com -- for the last several years. I found the site on a google search after reading a few articles about the state of the banking industry. When I'd tell people that the major banks were on the verge of collapse, everyone looked at me like I was nutty. When press reports (the few there were) talked about the impending collapse, most people in the press said it was hysteria that would harm the banks, so they should just shut up.

    It was obvious to anyone who would look that this banking nightmare would happen. It was predicted after the banks got one regulation removed after another. And since we bailed out the banks, they are doing the exact same things again -- their derivative games and all.
     
  12. Darryl

    Darryl Approved members

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,313
    Glad you mention that. Our company's electric bills did go up from last year, around $40/month, so around $500/year. Our Blue Cross health insurance costs for covering 25% of our employee's health care policies went up EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS this year.

    I'm sorry but any warnings of "look out for the cost increases" are a joke, after the 13 consecutive years of astronomical increases. The defenders of the status quo have had 13 years to put up or shut up, and they continue to do neither.
     
  13. pinkpanther

    pinkpanther Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    135
    Tell me how this won't affect our kids, especially those of us that have older children with diabetes???

    Health premiums could rise 17 percent for young adults

    Under the health-care overhaul, young adults who buy their own insurance will carry a heavier burden of the medical costs of older Americans, a shift expected to raise insurance premiums for young people when the plan takes full effect.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011474724_healthage30.html
     
  14. Brensdad

    Brensdad Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,383
    I need something to help me chill, but a beard is definitely not it. I have a goatee because I look like a 12 year old kid with a double-chin without it.
     
  15. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    What's that have to do with me being gouged by my bank? Nothing. Nada. My bank fees are negligible and my services are great. My home loan is still low and my credit card rate hasn't increased. My assets are back to pre-"bank failure" levels and, actually, a bit better.

    Tell us ... how are your financials? You have a sob story to go with that fear you post?

    Fear is a powerful thing but only if it's true.
     
  16. Brensdad

    Brensdad Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,383
    And please do tell me how adding 31 million customers that have paid nothing into the insurance pools will help control costs?

    Would you say that Medicare and Medicaid, if operated as private businesses, would still be in operation today? I can tell you from experience that Medicare runs out of cash every year sometime around September, and they just deny claims for no reason until Congress raises the debt ceiling. (And Medicaid funds come from Medicare).

    So, this bill does nothing to control costs (which you have yet to dispute), and you insist that insurance companies that will be forced to operate under the same guidelines (no pre-existing conditions, etc.) will be able to operate as private businesses?

    I suppose if they borrowed heavily like Medicare does then that might be true (and really, will they do that?), but since financing this bill will require borrowing 39 cents of every dollar, I'd say external lending sources are about to dry up. Good thing the president wants to take over the banks...

    The "status quo" argument is great for election season talking points, but it does little to justify a giant bill that does not reduce costs, it just "spreads it around a little."
     
  17. Karenwith4

    Karenwith4 Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,442
    Dreds and a little Bob Marley to go with the tie-dye perhaps?
    :D
     
  18. swellman

    swellman Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    Did you actually READ this article?!??!!?

    Are you honestly comfortable playing the D-card in this respect?

    This has NOTHING to do with our children with D. NOTHING. Shame on you.

    This article suggests that our young adults MAY have to pay $42 more per month to support our elderly - THEIR PARENTS perhaps. Heaven F'king forbid.
     
  19. Brensdad

    Brensdad Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,383

    Rella, now you know that I may be petty and childish in a debate like this, but I'm not dishonest.

    The banking collapse was a result of government (namely Carter and Mario/Andrew Cuomo) threatening banks to make home loans available to those "disproportionately affected" by low credit ratings. In other words, they threatened to sue any bank that did not lend to people with low credit scores under the guise that the lending was race-based discrimination.

    So, the banks came up with a way to do it, and it was variable-rate interest loans. And banks, being banks, (especially outfits like Countrywide) found everyone they could loan money to and underwrote a mortgage regardless of their ability to pay. They offset the risk by offering a variable-rate loan, and at the time, those rates were great because no one was defaulting....yet. Why would they do such a thing, you ask? I'm glad you asked!

    Mortgage companies don't hold your loan. They sell it on the market as a security. So a company, say Countrywide, would loan someone $150,000 at a 6% VAPR, and then sell in on the securities market for its "future value." That future value would be about $175,000 with a high risk beta built in. (Beta, in finance terms, is the "risk premium"). Then lots and lots of people with 401(k)s and other investment portfolios would buy into these securities that were backed by mortgage loans. Unfortunately, Fannie and Freddie were HUGE owners of this debt.

    Fast forward now to 2006. The folks that were loaned the money began to default because they couldn't afford the loans to begin with. So then the variable rates began to rise (just like if you are late on one credit card, they all go up). The rising variables caused more and more defaults, and those started showing up on the nightly news.

    Once all that money backing those loans fell apart, guess what happened to people's 401(k) or other investments that included mortgage-backed securities? Kaput!

    Then along comes Timothy Geithner, he's now the head of the Treasury, but back then he was a big shot at Goldman-Sachs. And Goldman invested heavily in these securities. Geithner called his buddies in Congress, and voila, bank bailout!

    So the lesson learned by Wall Street was: invest in any scheme that comes along, because the taxpayer will bail out anyone that's "too big to fail."

    What that was was a great lesson in how the free market will always "correct" itself to the true value of any asset, and government interference in this free-market concept will cause phony inflation and a bigger collapse. And when real estate collapses like that, it's a BIG deal.

    If you look at Texas, the banks here never fell for the "variable APR" (generally speaking). So the housing boom here was fairly brief, and home values held steady. At the time, people were royally ticked because they saw home values inflating (artificially it turns out) everywhere but here. But now, our economy is doing quite well, and although unemployment isn't great (about 7%), it's not nearly what the national rate is, and there aren't any cities with great swaths of abandoned homes.

    Again, I'm not laying blame particularly on anyone, but social politics and economics do not make good partners whether we like it or not. But it does bother me when the housing collapse is laid at the feet of Bush, when the blame fundamentally lies in social policies that ignore the unavoidable realities of the science of economics; and then its perpetuated by politicians that don't want the correction to happen on their watch.
     
  20. Brensdad

    Brensdad Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,383
    If my hair grows longer than 3 inches, I look like John McEnroe. (And no fair comparing our temperments!)
     

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice