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Study showing vaccinations can cause autoimmunity

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Charlotte'sMom, Aug 15, 2012.

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  1. Lisa P.

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    I have a friend who immigrated from South Africa, she has been told she is not allowed to donate blood even though she has had blood tests that show she is free of infection, because anyone who grew up in sub-Sahara Africa, which of course has a tragic incidence of HIV, can't donate. She doesn't know if this is universal in the U.S., but she was surprised since she understood donated blood was well screened before use.

    Sometimes I think someone just makes up a rule and no one wants to overturn the rule, no matter how unreasonable it is, because then if something bad does somehow happen, it's on that person's head. :eek:
     
  2. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    I'm pretty sure that's more a time limited malaria risk exclusion than about HIV.
     
  3. Charlotte'sMom

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    You've named 3 diseases we vaccinate for. And small pox isn't one of them.
    There are 13 more on the schedule. And yes, I've read about them all.

    The idea behind vaccines is brilliant-- get immunity for a few dangerous illnesses without actually have to "get" the disease. We've determined that vaccines are safe, or at least worth the small risk of side effects. That seems to have given the CDC an open invitation to continue to add to the recommended schedule without stopping to consider if this is really the best thing for our immune systems and our overall health. (IME, most parents don't even know or question what all vaccines their children are given) We're only seeing the tip of the iceburg when it comes to unintended side effects. For example, we're now seeing shingles in children (previously unheard of) because of the chicken pox vaccine. (But no worries, there's a vaccine for that)

    And don't get me started on whooping cough. For anyone with a baby, it's a worrisome disease. But it's recently been in the news again because they are finding that the vaccine hasn't been nearly as effective as they thought, which is why there's a big push for parents to get boosters "to protect their babies." Whooping cough isn't dangerous for older children and adults-- only babies. And since the vaccine isn't all that effective, we'll never be able to fully eradicate it as keeping adults up to date on their boosters is nearly impossible. So there will always be babies (who don't develop immunity to the vaccine soon enough to be protected) who are at risk of catching it from infected adults.

    Anyway... I'm derailing my own thread. I appreciate the comments on this. It's given me a lot to think over. My apologies if I've misunderstood or misinterpreted the results of this study. FWIW, I tend to lean towards the more natural side of things in general, like choosing unmedicated childbirth :eek: and leaving my sons intact. Something about the heavy vaccine load doesn't feel right to me. It doesn't feel natural. I just don't think a baby's immune system is meant to endure the onslaught of vaccines we put them through. And I've done too much reading about vaccines already to feel comfortable doing things on the CDC's schedule. I feel like I do my children more good by feeding them healthy, keeping them clean and well-rested and then hoping that when they do get sick, their immune systems respond the way they should and they get well again with no lasting side-effects. I don't want my child to get sick, but I also don't want her injected with chemicals. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

    Anyway...

    FTR, my daugther was not unvaxxed at dx. She had had a few by that point.
     
  4. Lisa P.

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    She was told -- and, of course, the person who told her might have been mistaken -- that it was HIV. She has been in the U.S. for over 30 years, I'm not sure when the incident happened but since she immigrated as a child it was probably some years later.
     
  5. Christopher

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    What about all the chemicals in food, candy, shampoo, etc...?
     
  6. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    I don't know that that's the right test to apply. Is flying on an Airbus natural? Electric lighting? Driving a car? Surviving because of injectable insulin?
     
  7. Charlotte'sMom

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    I'm not perfect at it, but I don't buy food with dyes in them if I can avoid it. I make things from scratch as much as possible. My oldest can't have HFCS, so I'm forced to read beyond just the carb content of nutritional labels. My 3rd sometimes gets severe eczema so they use a natural soap. I haven't yet converted to natural shampoos (though it continues to bother me) so I just bathe my kids as little as possible right now. ;)

    That being said, it is more bothersome to me to inject my child with chemicals than to bathe in them. But I suppose that is a bit hypocritical.

    ETA: I also recently gave up anti-perspirants, which was a bold move living in this hot hot desert. ;) I get weirder and weirder the more you get to know me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  8. miss_behave

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    There have been a major resurgence in whooping cough cases because of the people who aren't vaccinating their children and babies are dying because of it. Yes, boosters are needed but are also for other conditions such as tetanus (I nursed a patient with this and it was not pretty, get your boosters every 10 years, people!). As for it not being dangerous for adults, my mum had whooping cough a couple of years ago and she was very ill for a long time. They call it the "hundred day cough" for that reason. She would cough and cough all day and night until she threw up and struggled for breath, had no energy and was miserable for 4 months. There is no effective treatment for it. I would not want to see my child to through that. Even if it it isn't going to be fatal for non-infants, it is definitely not something you want to get!
     
  9. sooz

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    Danielle, I honestly don't want to be argumentative, I just want to point out to you that the reason children are not vaccinated for small pox now is because it was eradicated by massive vaccination requirements as recently as the 1970s. I still bear the scar on my arm from the small pox vaccine as do all adults who were vaccinated for it. I understand your fear for your children and your opinion about what would be the best for your children. The thing is though, the reason you are able to roll the dice and hope that your children won't be adversely affected is because the rest of us do immunize our children, thus lessening the probability that those who are not vaccinated will be infected.

    Sorry I was mistaken about whether your DD had received vaccines prior to Dx, I thought you said that. I admire your passion, I just don't agree with your conclusions.
     
  10. Charlotte'sMom

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    From what I've read, the majority of people who are getting whooping cough have been vaccinated for it, their immunity has just worn off. I didn't mean to say it wasn't bad for adults, but it's deadly for infants under 6 months. Unfortunately, it takes 2-3 doses of the vaccine to develop immunity, which leaves the youngest babies still vulnerable.
     
  11. Lee

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    I just had a conversation with our pediatrician about this on Tuesday. He did lay the blame of the outbreak on the weakened vaccination. But what gets me is we reformulated the vaccine to make it more safe, and now people are complaining that they need another booster...

    Anyway, we had the discussion because my oldest had random seizures at 5 months old. We were told to never give her a pertussis vaccine. Shortly after, the vaccine was re-engineered to be safer, but I still did not feel like risking it. At the meeting with the pedi, he tried to convince me to get the vaccine. I asked him honestly, which would hurt my healthy 16 year old more - a case of whooping cough, which her catching are slim, or her having a seizure from the vaccination, which chances of happening as just as slim...he did say if you look at it that way, the seizure could have more harm then whooping cough.

    I know that they changed the pertussis formula, but there is still warnings on the vaccine that those with neurological disorders should not take pertussis. Since they could not diagnose why Jess had seizures, I am making the conscious decision to not vaccinate her. I know she may get whooping cough, and I will vaccinate Coco.
     
  12. Charlotte'sMom

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    And I think you're missing my point. I don't have much of a a problem with a handful of vaccines. "I was vaccinated and I'm fine." If there's a small pox outbreak, I might even get in line for the vaccine. But this isn't about vaccinating for a few diseases that once plagued us as a society. This is about 25 doses of vaccines, including for some diseases that a) aren't all that scary and/or b) never were all that common or worse or c) are STDs that our newborns won't catch!

    When I first read that article, it honestly just didn't seem like such a stretch to think that overstimulating our immune systems might be contributing to this plague of autoimmune diseases that we're seeing now.
     
  13. Lee

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    What vaccine for an STD do they give newborns?
     
  14. steph

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    HepB is the STD.
     
  15. Lee

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    But it is not just an STD - it is transmitted in other ways as well. Unlike HIV, you can get Hep B from saliva - something as simple as going to a friends house and borrowing a toothbrush (gross - but kids do this), or any other household item that comes into contact with saliva - like a drinking glass - or other bodily fluids - like diabetes testing supplies.

    If it was just an STD, it would not be given to newborns.
     
  16. hawkeyegirl

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    I can tell you that. It has actually been discussed fairly frequently on this board. Vaccine companies are required to report ALL adverse events that happen during their vaccine studies. So if a child in the study got the vaccine and happened to be diagnosed with T1 D the next day, they have to report it as a potential side effect.

    The side effects in the inserts do NOT mean that there is any evidence of causation. Zero, zip, none.

    As for there being conflicting data and articles, there really are not, unless you count the crackpot ones.
     
  17. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    It's "been in the news" because children have died.:(

    You seem ready to throw that proverbial baby out with the bath water. By your reasoning because the vaccine isn't 100% effective (and show me a vaccine that is) and therefore boosters are required so you suggest that because that's difficult, we should simply accept that babies will die because we can't eradicate whooping cough completely. :confused:

    People who are vaccinated against whooping cough, including those you imply are being "pushed" to get a booster to, as you put it, "protect their babies" are doing just that. A vaccinated person poses less of a risk to others, are less sick themselves and yes, might just protect a 2 month old from dying. A worthy cause in my book.
     
  18. steph

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    Not that it really matters as it doesn't directly relate to this thread, but although HepB and HIV are found in the saliva of those infected, it is not spread through the saliva. It spread only through vaginal fluid, semen and blood according to the world health organization, as is HIV. There is no need to vaccinate an infant unless the mother is infected.

    I cannot comprehend why people would think that vaccines are completely safe. They come with a two page warning for a reason. If they were safe there would not be a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The majority of the research cited on CWD lists studies that compared children who were vaccinated prior to 9 months vs. those who were given it after 9 mos. Or those who were unvaccinated vs. those who received more than one vaccination. There are studies that imply that immunizations are related to increased incidence of autoimmune disorders. It's an issue that is still up in the air and more research is needed. I am not anti-vaccine, but I do think it is a risk vs. benefit decision that each parent must make given the indiviual charateristics of their child and their family. Just because someone doesn't want to vaccinate doesn't mean they are ignorant or paranoid.
     
  19. swellman

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    Not one person here said that vaccines were completely safe and I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that it's a risk vs benefit situation.

    That having been said there are rational reasons for evaluating the risk vs benefit and there are irrational reasons as well. Some of the irrational reasons are borne of ignorance.
     
  20. GaPeach

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    Those of us here on the cwd forum are active, involved parents.

    Unfortunately, not all parents are as in tune. The primary reason so many vaccines are given in the early years is because after about age 2, parents are not keeping up with well check-ups at the peds office. To make sure children are getting all recommended vaccines, the schedule is aggressive.

    It would be interesting to do a study comparing children receiving all vaccines by age 2; children receiving vacs spread out to age 5 and perhaps spread out to age 7 or more. How do we really know the effects with long term studies? Many of these vacs have been added in recent years.

    I am glad that vaccines were developed. I am very glad that my children have not faced epidemic diseases. However, that does not mean I agree with the current vac schedule.
     
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