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Religion... or lack of, really

Discussion in 'Parents Off Topic' started by ashtensmom, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. ashtensmom

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    Lately I can't help but wonder about god, religion, etc. I am not a religious person and do not belong to any religion (although I do believe in god). We do not go to church and until recently, do not pray. As such, our DD was never baptized. I believe in god in a way that he protects and watches over everyone and that he is all around us and not just in church. Hence, I worship him in my own way of just doing right by others and myself, and find comfort in knowing he is around us all the time.

    What I am getting at in this thread is the "what if". Lately, I am thinking "what if we had baptized DD", "what if we prayed" and went to church and belong to a religious group, would DD have T1D? I know this is a stupid question and children of all faiths get T1D, but I think I am writing this thread to get reassurance from others that "I/we didn't do wrong by DD by not being religious... any comments?
     
  2. denise3099

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    Oh you poor thing--as if we don't have enough to worry about. How many of us have wondered whether we couased our kids' D with vaccines, or cow's milk, or not breast feeding, or being too clean or not clean enough?! If not praying is another D risk factor than I guess I'm lucky all she got was D and not black plague! ;)

    No you didn't cause D based on your lack of religious observation. I promise. :)

    I don't know of formal studies of how many church-goers have D vs. the general population, but I know plenty of church-goers who are scum-bags and plenty of atheists who are awesome, and the other way around. Besides, you can't blame God for D without thanking God for every single good thing you have. So maybe all the great stuff in your life is a reward for how you live. :D Or maybe it's just a crap-shoot and you're lucky just to crawl into bed at night safe and sound. ;)
     
  3. Christopher

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    This is something you will need to come to grips with by looking inside yourself. Will it really make you feel better if a bunch of strangers on the Internet tell you that it is OK you didn't pray or baptize your child? Alternatively, would it make you feel bad if they told you that, yes, they believe God gave your child diabetes because you were not religious enough?

    It really boils down to your internal beliefs. If you believe that God sits around keeping track of who is praying and who is baptizing their kids, and then makes decisions about who will get diseases and who will die based on that, then you are in trouble, because if you really believe that, and since you didn't baptize/pray, then it is your fault. Good luck with figuring this out.
     
  4. denise3099

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    BTW, I am not religious and am really an atheist through and through, but brother I thank "God" every single day that my daughter was dx'd with D in 2004 in the United States! I thank God for insulin, and refrigeration, and pumps, and syringes with tiny needles, and bg meters that take 5 seconds to display, and cgm, and alchohol in individual little packages. I thank God for glucose tabs that taste yummy, and electricity, and betteries, and novolog and lantus, and helath insurance which so many don't have!!! I thank God for mail order pharmacies and relative peace and relative health, and my beautiful daughter's gorgeous smile which makes me all warm inside. I thank God for glucagon and pink pumps with pink hearts on the skins and pink infusion sets, and for spi-belts. I thank God for the CWD website!!! All in all, I'm a lucky dog--if God is handing out candy for good behavior, I must be doing something right! ;) :D
     
  5. fredntan2

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    I recently started going to universal unitarians church.I myself don't have all this stuff figured out.am also just looking for answers.
     
  6. obtainedmist

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    The endo who first saw our daughter told us in his first conversation, "This is not your fault, nothing you did or didn't do caused this." A respected rabbi wrote a book When bad things happen to good people (Harold S. Kushner). It's a wonderful read and very reassuring about what can be controlled and what can't. I can't imagine that anything you did or didn't do in the religion department would've made a difference in the dx of your cwd. Anyone who would tell you otherwise, imho, is very mean-spirited and not at all holy!;) I would hope that faith or a positive attitude will help all of us deal with the dx and move on with our lives. Take care and don't beat yourself up!!
     
  7. liasmommy2000

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    It wouldn't make a difference. I'm not religious but I know plenty of people who are in the D community and their kids still have it. And there are plenty of other religious people who have/their kids have other diseases and/or other problems in life.
     
  8. Amy C.

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    I am a Christian and I cannot think of any denomination that believes that God punishes a child for actions or lack of on the part of the parent.
     
  9. swellman

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    This ^^^^^^^
     
  10. frizzyrazzy

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    I'm religious. We go to church. We pray. yadda yadda. My child still has diabetes. :0

    That not withstanding, don't feel bad if this thread gets pulled or people get their panties up in a bunch.
    http://forums.childrenwithdiabetes.com/faq.php
     
  11. Becky Stevens mom

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    The God that I worship doesnt punish his children by causing harm to them or the ones they love:cwds: My boys are not baptized either nor do we go to church. I am a Catholic but have chosen to worship in my own way right here in my house or outside where I feel closer to God. Please dont ever feel to blame for your childs diabetes. You didnt cause it by not going to church or not breastfeeding or not having them by natural birth or not having them early enough or late enough in life. I used to beat myself bloody emotionally for my son's diabetes but now I take care of him the best way I know how and just love him to pieces, his big brother too;)
     
  12. Christopher

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    With all due respect, there is no way you can make this promise. There is no way for you to know this is true.

    What about "The sins of the Father shall be visited on the Son"?

    Also, apparently God is the jealous type so you never know what he may choose to do or not do depending on his mood.

    (Deuteronomy 5:9- "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God......)
     
  13. Amy C.

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    Last time I checked, diabetes was never listed as a sin in the Bible. This quote from the 2nd commandment is talking about how sins that adults do are often passed down and their children also sin.
    I am not acquainted with this moody god you are talking about. Sounds like the gods of the Romans -- doing things on their whims.
     
  14. denise3099

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    Actually, I "know" this is true like some people "know" there is a God or "know" the sun will come up tomorrow. True it can't be proven. But I know in my heart that this is true and I'd put money on it. I realize this is semantics and what I mean is that this is what I "believe" to be true--but sometimes, you know what you know. :)

    Yeah, that one made me smile. ;) The Judeo-Christian tradition has a long history of punishing whole lines for the wrong-doing of an ancester--think Adam and Eve! It's not like their kids were invited back into Eden. The whole human race was gonna pay for that one. :p And Greco-Roman mythologies are ripe with making you pay by punishing your kids. These are just the dominant ideologies I'm familiar with.

    But I think in the modern age, few people think this way. It's a fair question though. I mean, if you believe that God is real then it's as possible as vaccines or dairy causing D. But since it can't be proven, all I can do is offer what I know to be true: Children don't get D b/c thier parents skip church. So there! :p
     
  15. Christopher

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    I did not say diabetes was a sin. The OP was concerned about her lack of religious practices/faith causing her child's diabetes.

    Jealousy is a mood. I was just going by what it said in Deuteronomy, "for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God"
     
  16. nanhsot

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    Oh sweetie, you are in no way at fault. Bad things happen, period, end of story. Sometimes in retrospect we see things we could do differently, or paths we might have taken, but when it comes to diabetes, I believe we are truly at the whim of fate and nothing we did or did not do caused it.

    I am going to gently suggest that you speak to someone who is spiritual about this. Your feelings of being pulled by these thoughts may mean you are searching for some spirituality in your life. Not saying you need to go to church or whatever, but perhaps this little nagging in your head is a need unfulfilled. Can't hurt to just go down that road a teeny bit and see if it gives you some calm about this. You could start by just praying some....or finding a church that fits your needs. Church has changed a LOT since I was young, and many are really fun and happy, lots of music and movement, you may find it helpful.

    I'll be thinking of you, guilt and blame are tough enemies. If I have spoken out of turn, my apologies. Evangalism definitely is NOT my spiritual gift, and I'm all about everyone finding their own paths in life. Wishing you peace about this issue.
     
  17. anna-bananna

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    Our family is religious. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, attend church, pray, etc., etc. We believe in "believer's baptism," as opposed to infant baptism, though, so our DD's have not been baptised yet, either. (Our "D" DD says she believes, and answers all of our questions well, but we want her to wait a bit until we can really be sure she understands what she is doing (to the best of our ability) and that it is her own choice and not just trying to please mom and dad, before we discuss baptism with her.) We were even headed to the mission field when DD was diagnosed. So, NO, I do NOT believe that your child got "D" because of your religious beliefs, or, as you say, your lack thereof.

    This may start to sound like rambling, but:

    Do I think God is responsible for our DD's "D"? Possibly. Not that God would "give" it to us...but that He would "allow" it. (Not sure if this can ever be confidently answered, God being God, and us just being human.) But if He did, He sees a bigger picture than I do, and understands how this will actually be the making us, if we will keep trusting Him. I do not believe, under any circumstances, that God gave "D" to our family as a punishment for anything we did or did not do. Perhaps He has a particular way He wants to use us, that would not be possible if "D" were not a part of our lives? I can tell you 3 benefits right now: 1) It has helped the communication regarding parenting between my husband and me. 2) It has drawn our family even closer together than we were before. 3) It has helped my relationship with my DD particularly, who was so totally independent--almost to the point of a detachment disorder, but not quite that bad. We have grown much closer since "D" entered our lives (although she is still extremely independent).

    Do these benefits make me thankful for my daughter getting Type-1? Absolutely not. I am as upset as everyone else is about their child getting it. I have begged Him to heal our DD, and promised that we would tell everyone that it was Him who did it and bring all kinds of glory to Him because of it. His answer to me in my heart was that sometimes He gets more glory from faithful people who walk through difficulties, than He would from His people always being rescued from them. It is a hard place to come to, that the desire of your heart and the purpose of your life will be to bring glory to God, and nothing else, no matter what. We often think that if we just do the right thing all the time, that our lives should be easy. But it just isn't so...especially in the fallen world (by that I mean full of sin) that we live in. No one goes through life NEVER having anything bad happen to them. But no matter what, I know that if I trust Him and keep being faithful, then He WILL bring good out of it. I might not ever see it...it might not be in my lifetime; but He has promised and he is faithful.

    These are just a few thoughts from where I am in the process, right now. It hasn't been pretty...this is a new perspective for me...coming out of a year of turmoil about why God would allow "D" to come to our family (as if we are better and less deserving than others! How selfish of me...why us? why not!). I have sulked and cried and pouted and been angry at God and thrown fits and yelled...AT GOD!! (And not just about "D", but about some life-long struggles, the death of my dad about 6 years ago, and some other troubles I have been facing.) But, you know what? He can take it. He'd rather have my honesty, anyway; and He has been so faithful to strive with me, and give me peace and some special blessings...he has confirmed His presence when I felt He had abandoned me.

    And you know what I learned? I have been calling Him the boss of my life for 32 years, now and I really have tried my best to live for Him all these years. But, through this I have learned something that should have been blindingly obvious all this time. MY LIFE IS NOT ABOUT ME! Not my comfort, my dreams, or my desires for me OR my family. My life is about Him and bringing glory to Him. Period. And if it means that we have to entertain "D" in our family for a while (Still holding out hope for a cure in DD's lifetime!!!!!! --hopefully sooner, rather than later!), then, I can't say I like it...but so be it. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes...and I am finally at peace with that.

    But do I still feel bad & cry for my daughter and wish she didn't have to deal with "D?" ABSOLUTELY!
     
  18. Lakeman

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    As an exercise in intellectual analysis:

    There are actually several ways one could know that ones lack of religious faith did not cause D.

    1. If one searched all of existence and proved there was no God then one would know that lack of belief in such a God did not cause D. I think we can assume that a parent here has not searched the entire universe - but then again we can't really know that can we, and it would be an assumption?

    2. One could receive a revelation from God telling one that disbelief did not cause a child's D. Could any of us ever know that the anyone else did not receive such a revelation?

    3. One could receive a message from a trustworthy prophet of God indicating that disbelief did not cause a child's D. Can any of us know that such a prophet did not talk to anyone?

    4. One could read a passage in the bible saying that God does not punish people for other people's sins (found in several places) and if through either revelation or critical examination knew the bible to be trustworthy then one would know that a lack of disbelief did not cause a child's diabetes. As a side note this is not contradiction to the verse about the "sins of the father" since that verse does not mean that a fathers sins cause children to be punished. However, this is only half an answer. What about consequences rather than punishments? As an example, if an alcoholic sins in his drinking and as a result of his abuse beats his kids do they not suffer? A parents actions can cause a child to suffer. Therefore this response (#4) is really a half response.

    5. One could know that a cause other than disbelief was the actual cause. I do not know that we can pinpoint any causes but I also do not know that someone else here could not.

    6. I bet we could keep going...

    In short, I lack the ability to know that anyone here lacks the ability to know that a child's D is not caused by a lack of belief. Do any of us have the ability to know that someone else can't know something? I doubt any of us can say that someone else does not know something.

    On a different note, all of us make all sorts of promises all the time and few of us ever really can be certain that our promises are ironclad. I could promise to take my mother to a doctors appointment tomorrow but I could drop dead before then. It is to be understood that when any of us makes a promise that we are frail humans and are not to be judged against standards of absolute truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  19. Lakeman

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    Again nothing against you, I would probably like you very much if we met :), and purely as an exercise:

    Jealousy does not equal unpredictability.

    Furthermore, moods (or emotions, etc.) have two sides. When a man is angry at his brother for no reason the anger is rearing its ugly head. When a man witnesses the abuse of an innocent his anger spurs him to defend the innocent. In this case anger is justified and serves a useful purpose. Likewise, when a spouse is constantly jealous for petty reasons or nonexistent causes that is the green eyed monster. But no one with any moral fiber in a committed marriage should not defend that marriage while his/her spouse cheats.
     
  20. Kaylas mom

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    We are a very religious family and just look at my signature. :rolleyes:
     

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