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Opinions on the economy please....

Discussion in 'Other Hot Topics' started by Heather(CA), Jun 27, 2010.

  1. swellman

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    I'm not going to get into a milk conspiracy argument with you in this thread but to say that milk sold in almost every grocery store, if not in every single one, is unfit for the general public is just ridiculous. It's laughable. That's my last comment on it in this thread.
     
  2. swellman

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    Maybe we can pass a law that says that only US made goods can be sold in the US. That way we can have the crappiest TVs, stereos, electronics, etc. We can only have fresh fruit and vegetables in season - forget bananas and pineapples. Our cars would be junk - yes even the ones "made in the USA" since the components can't be bought here anymore. Wait .... wasn't that the USSR then and Cuba and North Korea now? And China to a certain, if not large, extent?

    Funny thing ... people don't seem to be able to discern the difference between "paying more for American" and the government supporting those who are out of work.

    Becky cites the crappy furniture available at Wal-Mart. Do you know why that is? It's because people WANT a $79 piece of furniture that they may decide to throw out a few years from now - not an heirloom piece made by hand which costs a small fortune. Is that wrong? No, of course not. Sorry for the dudes in Hickory, NC but your $750 for an occasional table is just not worth it - to me.

    I'm still amazed that people think that foreign made is necessarily poor quality. It's not - you get what you pay for. If you pay for quality, you get it. Anyone remember buying a car in the '70s or '80s? Everyone knew not to buy a Michigan made car that was finished on Monday or Friday because they were known to be junkers. The auto workers strong armed themselves out of jobs. They were not only getting paid, what?, 4 times more than they were worth but putting out crap as well. The unions did a great PR campaign on those "rice burners" but they ran and ran well .... for a long time. The auto workers sent those jobs overseas. And waxing poetically about how those poor foreigners are treated seems to be a disservice to how our textile workers, coal miners, and poultry workers, to name a few, were/are treated.

    Sure ... everyone just buy American and it will all work out. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Flutterby

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    I'm tired of my kids toys, food and glassware being poisoned. The people who WANT that crappy piece of furniture for less at walmart can go get it.. walmart has run a whole bunch of businesses out.. Ames, Zares, child world, Riches just to name a few..

    Obviously the world needs to trade.. we need to buy from other countries, and other countries need to buy from us. but we do not need to buy.everything.from.other.countries. We do not need to have our food, toys and glassware poisoned, don't we deserve better than that? Don't the people getting paid pennies a day deserve better than that?

    As for the government 'paying for those out of work'.. When you work, you pay into unemployment insurance. its INSURANCE for when you are not working. Its NOT an option to be into it or not when you are working. Its not as simply as 'oh, I don't want to work, so I'll collect unemployment'.. it doesn't work that way. You EARN your unemployment, the government hands you nothing.

    I never said 'foreign made was poor quality'.. what I said was that we need to support workers in this country. There is great technology in other countries, there are great products in other countries. BUT do we really need to buy a toy from china, that someone got paid 3cents to make, so we can buy it for $5.00, the rest going to the big corperate chain.. when we could buy that SAME toy made within the USA, and not poisoned with LEAD and pay $10.00 instead for $5?

    We should be buying what we can get here, like food for instance.. why do we need tomatos from Mexico when we can get them in the USA? why do we have potatos from other countries when we can grow them here? Obviously there are some fruits and vegetables that we can't grow here, so we get them from other countries, thats great, as long as those people who are trading the food are being treated properly and getting a fair wage for their work. Just as those in other countries that can't produce foods and products that we can't here would trade with us.. Oh, thats right, we don't have anything like that, because we sent it all to other countries because its cheaper.:rolleyes:

    If something happened in this world, where we wouldn't be able to trade with other countries, could this country provide everything we'd need to continue to live.. I'm not talking the basics, food, water, shelter.. I'm talking all the things we have now? That is something this country needs to think about.. we should be able to provide for ourselves WHILE we are trading with out countries.
     
  4. swellman

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    Seriously? Sure ... unemployment lasts a little while but then what?

    Maybe not <giggles> it's just poisoned and made with child slave labor.



    I hear and understand your frustration but to think that ANY store is going to put two products on a shelf that have the same quality but 100% difference in price is just naive.

    What has to be done is that if Americans want to compete in the world economy they have to realize that their manual labor isn't worth nearly as much as what they have been accustomed to.

    It just isn't worth 80k a year to do what a monkey can do.

    The same thing happens right here in the US. Jobs move from state to state and region to region. Why? Labor. Would you say the same thing about, say, a generic drug? Would you buy one ibuprofen at $6 over one at $3, all things equal, just because one was manufactured in the north where the unions control the cost of labor vs one manufactured in the south where labor is more reasonable? If you (general sense) lived in the north you would probably lament the loss of jobs to the south where they are known for slave labor and their lack of unions necessitated abuse and that their education would probably restrict equal quality of products and decide to buy local drugs to support the overpaid workers.

    The bottom line is that it's not about what we, as consumers, are buying that's at fault it's the failure of our country to adapt to a global economy and reevaluate historical trends in labor costs.
     
  5. Flutterby

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    I find this response completely insulting. I'm done my conversation with you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  6. Brensdad

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    Wal-Mart has done more to help middle-class America than any government program has ever done.
     
  7. Becky Stevens mom

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    Ah so its a milk conspiracy that Ive cooked up. I do have to wonder how many major dairy farmers you are aqainted with. I know several, some of my family members have worked for some in recent years. I feel that is always best not to argue about things you know nothing about. Interesting how the Monsanto name seems to really upset you. You can try to ridicule me on this subject or any if you like but Im not not the one looking like an a$$ here;)
     
  8. StillMamamia

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    Soooo, what are you suggesting as a viable solution to the economic crisis ?;)

    Seriously, what are your other options ? You are more versed than I on this subject, so I'd be interested to learn what solutions there may be.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Becky Stevens mom

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    Yep that pretty much puts down a huge number of the people in CWD forums, myself included. I picked mushrooms for over 3 years. I wiped babies butts, I cleaned houses. My sister takes care of people with severe mental retardation. I doubt a monkey could do that:rolleyes: It must be nice not having to dirty your hands for a living but it also makes it so you cant ever understand how the other half lives
     
  10. swellman

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    I don't have any solutions - just bringing up the fact that our planet has finite resources and logic would dictate we can overpopulate it and that would be bad. That's all - no final solutions here.
     
  11. swellman

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    It wasn't my intention to offend anyone. I was merely, in a now obvious and unintentionally offensive way, pointing out that an underlying reason for job migration is local and regional wage inflation. I wasn't demeaning anyone's job or wages because I don't know anyone's job(s) or wages. It was a crude way to say that if a job can be done cheaper elsewhere it probably will. I have resigned myself to the fact that regardless of the level of caveats in an opinion or fact someone or some group will find some way to be offended by it. The huge number of people in CWD that you refer to can easily opt to read that line and think "He's not referring to me - he's illustrating a disproportionately large wage for a job with numerous candidates." If that description strikes home for anyone then I would suggest concern because that situation is economically tenuous. I apologize to the others that choose to interpret it as a direct insult on whatever your job is or was.

    But if I might use your example to further illustrate my point, and probably to further offend you, if you and others were earning 80k per year picking mushrooms then I would suggest that the mushroom industry in your area would be a prime candidate for migration.

    EDITED: For stupid CWD cut and paste bug.
     
  12. StillMamamia

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    And how does a country go about that?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  13. Becky Stevens mom

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    Swell, I can call you Swell cant I? You tend to exagerate ALOT and it drives me batty!!!! Now Ive never met anyone that would expect to get 80k for picking mushrooms or making widgits for that matter. Just a living wage with some decent benefits. Just because people in the US are not willing to work for $2 a day and live in a hovel as they do in China doesnt mean that big companies should be moving all the business over seas. I realize that big business tends to not like unions very much. Thats because unions have fought for workers rights since they were created. Not just rights to a decent wage but for safety. And frankly I dont want my 9 year old or 12 year old working 16 hour days for pennies.

    You say if a job can be done cheaper elsewhere it probably will be. Yes thats true, but is it right? And is it just part of the cause of what the OP was asking about in the first place? What has screwed up our economy? I believe many things have and this is just one of the many reasons. Job loss, when people lose their jobs for whatever reason, they are not going to go out and spend money because they dont have any to spend. This puts more people out of work. Kinda sucks dont it?
     
  14. hawkeyegirl

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    swellman may be exaggerating a bit for effect, but I live in a town with a Chrysler plant, and many of the unskilled workers there make more money than I do, and they all have better health insurance and retirement benefits than I do. But, of course, the car companies couldn't afford the wages/benefits that they were paying and the unions wouldn't compromise, so now Chrysler is down to one shift and we have a lot of folks who were making $80k to weld part A to part B who find themselves out of work with no other job options that pay above $10/hour, because to be honest, they're unskilled laborers who were making lawyers' wages. So they've lost their insurance, they're defaulting on their mortgage, they're not buying the goods and services that they were buying previously. The blow to our local economy has been staggering.

    The original purpose of unions was good. But they've morphed into something quite problematic in many ways. (Don't get me started on the damage that was done to my husband's business when he hired a non-union electrician for a construction project.)
     
  15. Becky Stevens mom

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    When you put it this way Karla it makes alot of sense. Its true that unions have gone too far in their demands. My husband is a union steward and he is disgusted with his union! The worse part of it is that people would be willing to make alot less money but often the union will demand raises and top wages for their workers. Many schools have had to lay off teachers here but the teachers unions will not budge on their yearly raises even though most state workers in my state havent had a raise in years.
     
  16. swellman

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    I want to thank you both for illustrating exactly what I was trying to say without all the offending.

    Karla's story is a perfect example of what I was trying to say all along - that the artificial wage inflation builds a large artificial economy and when it reaches it's unaviodable conclusion the entire bubble bursts and the economy collapses.

    And Becky, of course I was exaggerating about the mushroom pickers but, as Karla pointed out, there are situations where it's not too far off.

    Believe me when I say I am intimately familiar with unions growing up in Southern Appalachia where nearly all my family were coal miners. I agree that they were instrumental with bringing working conditions up to the humane level but they, like Michigan, overshot the mark and the cost of wages pressured the coal industry to automate. The economy there is decimated. I don't know what an average union miner makes these days but I can tell you there's no amount that would get me to do it.

    ... and ouch.
     
  17. SueM

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    Wal-Mart helps middle-class America? I'd have to strongly disagree with that. :(

    ps. That's not giving a thumbs up to government programs... just giving a huge thumbs down to Wal-Mart.
     
  18. SueM

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    Monsanto... yuck! Big sigh....
     
  19. shirley83006

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    I thought that it all started probably with 9/11, and when they went to war. then the gas prices, that really made things bad. and so on.
     
  20. shirley83006

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