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Opinions on the economy please....

Discussion in 'Other Hot Topics' started by Heather(CA), Jun 27, 2010.

  1. Heather(CA)

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    So now I'm too stupid to comprehend Sarah??? Nice, as usual. :rolleyes:

    Here's the thing, the reason YOUR post got my attention is that you can be obnoxious often. You are very forceful and rude about what you say a LOT of the time when you don't agree. You often instigate these little dog pack mentality attacks and I'm getting sick of it. Your like a dog with a bone you wont let it go...

    So, when you do it on one of my threads...I get to tell you to knock it off. I don't agree with Lisa P's way of thinking, but she gets to think it. She is the one who was trying to bring it back to the original question, had a misunderstanding with someone other the YOU. Yet you jumped on her again. It's really OK to agree to disagree try it, you might have less stress in your life. Why do you think you get to behave this way? Seriously...Your not always this way, but lately it's more often than not. Stop it. Take a breath before posting and think about how you might be coming across...

    How typical to insult someone's intelligence when being called on bad behavior...Good one;) I hope you feel better now lol
     
  2. StillMamamia

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    Actually she didn't say (or imply) that you are too stupid to comprehend, Heather. But read into it what you will.

    Bringing in religion to an economic crisis is OT...but someone actually posted that the lack of religion (the lack of God) in your society is why you are where you are. Which led me to start the whole why and how. So, it is not that much OT. Probably (ok, definitely) not what you're looking for, but I believe it was a valid discussion, amidst some more OT posts than others.:D Because economics encompasses how we think, believe and live.

    I also think some of the earlier posts actually do a good explanation of why the crisis happened.

    So, all's good. I hope.:)
     
  3. Lisa P.

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    Holy Cow, Swellman, I certainly did get that one way off. :eek: Terribly sorry, I should have known from your previous posts what your style was and realized I was reading something wrong. I honestly just thought I'd managed to push some huge :mad: button with you and you were shouting me away. Phwew.

    I'll go on a delete spree, Heather, if you'd like, no problem, but I think it would just confuse things so I'll just move on? Deeply apologize to you for bringing my crazy to your thread.

    Karen, thanks for those specifics, I think that is helpful for the folks on this thread who were asking questions about religion and morality. I'd love to continue a discussion with you if you were addressing me, but would rather take it off thread. At the same time, don't feel a need to because I think you already know what I'm talking about and I think I kind of know what you're talking about?

    As for the OP, opinions on the economy. . . . .I still say debt and consumerism caused the short term crisis that won't be solved long term without reductions in both federal government power and corporate power.
     
  4. Heather(CA)

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    She most certainly did Paula. Most of it was a healthy debate but it was getting personal and that whole rudeness thing is getting old.
     
  5. StillMamamia

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    No, she did not say or imply that you were too stupid to comprehend. THAT you cannot say she was saying or implying. Whatever negative feelings there are between you two does not take away from the fact that what you thought was being said or implied is simply.not.true.

    FWIW, I thought this was a pretty decently discussed subject with interesting tangents, and why someone asking another for clarification or pointing out aberrations (which can be personal or not) is considered rude, is totally incomprehensible to me.:confused:

    Just because you're seeing potatoes does not mean there are potatoes, or even that the potatoes are rotten. Kwim?:D

    Which doesn't take away from the fact that we still don't know for sure why the economy is where it is. I think it's too complex a subject to pinpoint it to just one thing. All I know is that, like D, the economy goes in waves. You (we) are on an economic hypoglycemic trend, with some serious starvation ketones.:eek: But, from reading here and there, apparently there's a stable period predicted, so who knows.

    Love you too.;)
     
  6. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    It's good that you got that off your chest. Clearly you have issues with me and have been holding this in. I hope you feel better now.;)
     
  7. Flutterby

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    Sarah didn't call you stupid or say that you can't comprehend anything. She said that if you want to know more, to look at news sources and not just the opinions of other people.

    wow, I don't think Sarah deserves this at all.:(
     
  8. Karenwith4

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    Originally Posted by Sarah Maddie's Mom
    Heather, with all due respect, I think you have failed to comprehend the gist of the posts.

    I can understand why Heather read it the way she did.
     
  9. Lisa P.

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    Honestly, I don't mean to, but I often seem to throw gasoline around a thread. I can't tell you how sorry I am if good folks get singed, and how grateful I am to those who welcome my voice anyway.

    I'm happy to read posts folks might have on the OT now.
     
  10. StillMamamia

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    Re my bold : Hehe...that's apt for the Oil Spill thread.:D

    Just one more OT-ish thing:
    I'm tempted to pay to read the full thing.:eek: But it's USD 14...hmmm.
    http://www.jstor.org/pss/1519761
     
  11. Becky Stevens mom

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    Earlier in this thread I had suggested that alot of our economic whoes is being caused by the outsourcing of jobs overseas or to Mexico. I also believe that more and more technology and innovation is taking away alot of jobs. Now before I get flamed for that let me explain. When a machine is created that does the work of say 20 people, where do those people go? That machine may be able to make something that one person could make but will it care about the craftsmanship? Of course not. So much of what is made in this country by machines is faulty and not made to last like the things made by human beings years ago. I think technology is a wonderous thing but if people are losing their jobs and livelihoods due to technology its unfortunate.

    In my state and even in my town there used to be alot of farming going on. A family could have a small dairy heard and be able to make a decent living, not get rich mind you, but be able to feed his family. Now thats just not possible anymore as the big farms have forced the small ones out of business. Many farms and fields now lie empty, the barns falling apart and the fields becoming overgrown. So another group of people that cant just go out and get another job easily and are now needing to recieve money from the government.
     
  12. swellman

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    I don't agree. I think the progression of "technology" is a, perhaps unfortunate, consequence of advancement. Robots wouldn't exist if the pressures of demand weren't driving the cost of products downwards. Where do you think those uber-farms came from? Progress. In order to get a competitive edge, farmers started to mechanize. Those that did could sell their milk cheaper. Advances in husbandry increased output. Progress. On an on until the farms surviving were the large, mechanized farms. This is just the natural evolution of an industry and a society. I can surely appreciate the quality of small-farm old style milk but I'm not willing to pay $8/gallon for it.

    I think what we are seeing in the economy is part of a global shift in the balance of the world economy. We can lament for the good old days when it was extremely long, hard and expensive for products to cross the ocean and everything was made on the continent - except for luxury items - but it's just sticking your (general use) head in the sand. Believe me, it won't be too terribly long that it will be far too expensive to fly, then ship merchandise around the globe. The economy will shift again. The technologically advanced countries will house companies that can compete with nuclear powered merchant vessels.

    We, as a society and as individuals, have to be able to adapt to global economic fluctuations. We are probably already in a time where one career per lifetime is a 50/50 chance - or less.

    The biggest problem is that our planet will soon be unable to sustain the population. We may, in fact, be seeing the result of overpopulation right now with this economic situation.

    $0.02
     
  13. Becky Stevens mom

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    Just a couple of examples I was thinking of before. My sister owns a small used bookstore. She has about 50,000 items on inventory. Most of her business is done through book selling sites on the internet. Shes owned this business for about 10 years. during the last 4 years her business has tanked forcing her to let the 2 people go that were working for her. Why did this happen? I think there are several reasons. Kindle for one, people love Kindle but its hard for booksellers like my sister to compete with it. Also, people have less money to go shopping for books, used or new for that matter. When people lose their jobs they dont have the money for luxeries anymore, only the bare essentials. Another example, my late Father and Uncle owned a very successful sawmill. It was in operation for over 30 years. When you went there and bought a 2x4 that is what you got, or very close probably 1 7/8x 3 7/8. Now Home Depot can sell you a 2X4 for cheaper but what you are getting is cheaper quality a 1 2/8 by 3 2/8. Home Depot has taken all the business from this sawmill forcing them to lay off 10 people and probably close within the next year or so. Im glad my Dad isnt here to see this:(

    Much of the milk from the big uber-farms is laced with bovine growth hormone, antibiotics and other hormones. These animals are only grain fed with the cheapest of grain to make more of a product as cheaply as possible. I realize that organic milk or milk sold locally to me may be more expensive but I like the idea of knowing where it was produced, how the cows were fed and that there is no BGH or antibiotics in this milk. Makes me feel lots better giving it to my kids
     
  14. swellman

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    Now you're just on your soapbox because none of that has anything to do with the economics of efficiency nor the economy as a whole. Besides that topic is a whole 'nother one for the Hot Topics.
     
  15. StillMamamia

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    I can just see the panic going through people's heads at the possible implication of this.

    What do you think would be viable solutions to the current "crisis" ?
     
  16. swellman

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    The birth/death ratio is about 2.5:1 I think - It needs to be 1 to stop population increase.
     
  17. Becky Stevens mom

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    Oh no soapbox, milking stool maybe;) But it does have alot to do with the economy as a whole. All these small family farms that have closed have put lots more people out of work. Some of the farm workers may go to work for the big farms but many of them dont. They dont have the education to go out and get a blue collar job so many of them stay on unemployment or go to work at some menial job. And efficiency and technology may create widgits faster but if they are of lower quality who cares? Same thing with milk, if its of poor quality is it worth it to make more of it faster while putting people out of work? I guess our society has already answered that for me. I do think we are seeing more people go to their local farmers market to buy produce instead of W-mart and buying milk from the small producers even though it costs more. Or that may be wishful thinking on my part.

    I try to go to the general store in town at least once a week. The items there are often double the price at W-mart or most grocerys but the man that owns the store has at least 5 people employed there. If he shuts down because of no business those 5 people plus the owner are now out of work and looking to the government for support.
     
  18. swellman

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    That's why I think it has nothing to do with economics - because I don't think I'm buying a lower quality product and I think the general population agrees. If we needed a Samurai sword you could pay tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a highly skilled, hand made one or I could buy a perfectly good mass produced one for five hundred dollars.
     
  19. Becky Stevens mom

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    the general population may not know any better thus the crap you can buy at Walmart. The "furniture" made out of particle board that breaks if you look at it wrong. And if you were depending on said Samurai sword to save your a$$ against several skilled Samurais with the very expensive swords, well then you'd be singing a different tune mebbe. And of course the mass produced milk that is full of antibiotics because the cows get mastitis easily from all the growth hormone they get, that milk isnt really fit for the general public but Monsanto doesnt want anyone to know that so we'll just hush up wont we?
     
  20. Flutterby

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    I agree with you.. there are a lot of larger companies pushing the smaller ones out.. there is a lot more machinery now than there was years ago that are doing the jobs that human's use to do. It definitely effects the economy. Take our space program.. they won't be in the US much longer, did those that work for NASA ever think they'd be on the unemployment list or looking for another job? Probably not. We are sending to much of our jobs out of the country, we are searching for cheaper and quicker methods, from other countries where they don't treat people right. We need to start buying USA made to support our country and to support the workers.. When we shop at the big stores all your money leaves this country.. we aren't supporting the US, we are supporting other countries.
     

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