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Now the school says that my kid can't test at her desk in class because they have children in the sc

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by thebestnest5, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. kiwikid

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    I think they are overthinking the "medical procedure"... Its not as though a needle is on show for others as in a vaccination.. A discreet fingerprick with her hand down by her lap ISN'T a medical procedure for goodness sake.. and if she is pumping, its the same as using a cellphone..
     
  2. thebestnest5

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    I agree with you, it boils down to the appearance that the school is really looking for ways NOT to accommodate my child, instead of looking for ways TO accommodate my child.:(

    Should my child be denied testing in the classroom or where needed in the school, due to another kid's 504/IEP for passing out viewing medical procedures (love the vague verbiage on that one)?

    I just keep shaking my head and asking "Wny? Why?"" It appears the school is just angry that I won't be like everyone else and have the nurse do everything and have my kid test in the nurse's office and they want to make it miserable that I have the gall to not want to follow their policy as they state it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  3. Flutterby

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    I think they are full of !#$%. It is reasonable that she be able to check anywhere, including her desk, locker, gym class. It isn't a 'medical procedure'.. she's not performing surgery, right? The school needs to realize that they are being extremely silly. They were just all over the blood contamination issues too, did they drop that issue because they realized how stupid they were being? This is her health, its not some stupid request. There is a lot out there on the issue of testing in the classroom and being able to test whenever and wherever. If this child really does have an IEP/504, I image this child has either a sensory issue and/or autism, and I can see how a clicking noise would bother them. They can not pick which child they will accomidate and which child they won't. They have to make it work for both of them. Just as they say she can leave the room to test, so can he, or maybe while your child is testing the teacher and distract the child by reading or talking to him so the click isn't as noticable. This is just so stupid on the schools part I can't even believe you are dealing with this crap.

    Put that stuff in writing and then filing a complaint asap.
     
  4. valerie k

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    Its laughable at best to even think there is any child in that grade with a 504 for needle phobia to start with. You should be able to see the 504 with names blacked out if such existed. That would require a doctors note. So... even *IF* the child existed, they certainly would know who it was, and make sure your kids are NOT in the same class as they did with matt and children with peanut allergies. they put all the peanut allergy kids in one or two classes to ensure they had a safe peanut free enviroment.

    pens click, gum snaps, pencil sharpeners grate on my nerves... a small click every once in a while is just gonna be another noise in a class full of kids for any kid with sensory issues. Its not like they sound like a cannon shooting off for goodness sakes.
     
  5. swellman

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    Delay of treatment.

    It can be reasonably argued that a delay of treatment when low for at T1D could result in death. It can also be argued that a delay of treatment when high, over time (and it could be reasonably argued that this "child with a needle phobia" could follow the T1D over the course of education) could result in irreversible physiological damage.

    It can be reasonably argued that these real risks (and I would use the word "risks") outweigh any perceived psychological discomfort on the part of the "child with needle phobia".

    Real risks outweighs possible risk of mental discomfort.

    Delay of treatment is your trump card.

    IMO.
     
  6. MommaKat

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    Everything Swellman said, plus the caveat that testing at her desk minimizes time lost from class - one of the primary purposes of having a 504 plan in addition to the health plan.

    The needle phobic child is not missing time from class due to his / her phobia, and other steps (outside of putting your child's life at risk by delaying treatment) must be undertaken to accommodate that child. They're on a very slippery slope. If you have the summary you provided here, forward that on to both ADA and OCR. If not, request that they submit that in writing to you.

    I ran into this last year. The AP in my daughter's middle school tried very hard to mandate that dd test in the hall if she felt low or high, rather than at her desk. Our ADA advocate was brilliant in verbally demonstrating the legal culpability they faced in delaying treatment by trying to mandate testing anywhere but her desk. The accommodation for needle phobic students who became aware of my daughter testing was that 1) preferential seating for my daughter near the door for easy access in case of emergency, 2) needle phobic children preferentially seated on other side of the room, 3) if in a group work setting they could a) move to another area of the room in the even she needed to test, or b) they were allowed to self advocate and leave the room for a maximum of 2 minutes. Guess what? No child ever moved or left the room; in fact, most kids weren't aware she was testing or had done so until she went to grab juice or fast acting glucose from her snack bin in a class.

    Good luck with this. School admins that pull this stuff make my blood boil!
     
  7. swellman

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    Ok, now I have to ask. Are there REALLY needle phobic students or is this a ploy by massively ignorant parents to move testing outside of the classroom? I thought it a ruse but now with two people saying it happens I'm really, really ... skeptical.

    Talk about keeping Michael Sisco out of the swimming pool .....
     
  8. MommaKat

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    I don't know about the OP, but the ADA advocate and I both walked away convinced it was a ruse the school admin tried to pull. I think once they were called out by the advocate, they had to pretend they needed accommodations for both sets of kids. Whatever, they deserved the extra work if that was the case!!
     
  9. Lisa - Aidan's mom

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    Good luck trying to resolve this ridiculous situation; so sorry for the stress!
     
  10. Flutterby

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    I'm not sure about the kids that the OP is having issues with... I think its just an excuse the school is using. But for the sake of the schools arguement you can't just assume they are making it up, you have to assume there is a kid that has an IEP/504 for this needle phobia, the 'clicking' noise since you never SEE the needle, I bet this kid doesn't even KNOW whats going on... there is no way to prove that this kid doesn't exist because of the privacy laws. So we have to assume it does...

    I agree with you, Delay of treatment is the biggest issue. Everything that I have found about testing IN the classroom delay of treatment and missing less instruction time are they key reasons.
     
  11. DsMom

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    So...is there an ACTUAL needle phobic child in your child's classroom this year? As others have stated, the solution to this is so darn easy...just have that needle phobic kid leave the room for the 30 seconds or less that it takes your child to test. Or s/he could wear earbuds and listen to music for that time while s/he looks the other way. I'm sorry, but I just can't feel too much sympathy for this alleged child in the face of a real medical condition. And this is from someone who spent my own childhood very sensitive to blood...I would often get very faint, and actually once got up from a chair in the hospital after having had blood taken in a dizzy haze, not knowing what I was doing, walked down the corridor and out the door into an ambulance entrance. My mom was running behind me and caught me before I could get run over! This is a minor thing that many people experience.

    As for your child's current "diabetic status":rolleyes:, all they need to know is that she is diabetic...that is her status. The school nurse is not there to do the things that the endo does...she is not there to improve A1c or suggest management changes, so why would she possibly need to know anything about "status?" She is there to do the things you tell her to do related to your child's diabetes, period. And, the school is not the one who is supposed to be creating this Health Care Plan anyway...it is you, with your endo's advice or suggestions, who really create the plan. The school just needs to implement it.
     
  12. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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  13. selketine

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    My older son has a needle phobia - so it DOES exist. However he has no problem being around William when he tests, etc. He just doesn't want the needles applied to him (and he does not have needle phobia accommodations in school). I could elaborate on this entire issue but this board is accessible to anyone on the internet so I won't. I'm just disappointed to see so many posts that are so dismissive of this issue altogether as ridiculous. I think what is ridiculous is how the school is using that issue to not allow your child to test in the classroom - now THAT is the part we should be focused on.

    That aside, I agree that the school could be putting this up as an example for an issue that doesn't actually exist AT THE MOMENT in your child's classroom. I think you have the right to ask if there is actually someone with a 504 or IEP with accommodations for this issue in your child's classes. I don't know how old your child is but if this is middle or high school they should be able to separate them (guessing it is one or two) because so many sections of the same class are offered.

    The post below by MommaKat is perfect - if there actually ARE children in your child's class with a 504 or IEP for this issue - they have to accommodate both without putting undue burden on either. If the school won't figure it out to your satisfaction asap - I would get OCR involved and let them figure it out.

     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  14. CAGrandma

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    Although the child with the needle phobia may not exist, you have to proceed as if s/he does. You don't need to know who the kid is (privacy) but exactly what does his 504 require as an accommodation for his disability? Does it focus on something like excusing him from health classes where visuals of medical procedures may be displayed (like venous blood draws)? He doesn't participate in group immunizations? He doesn't have those immunizations that require injections? Does it say that he can't be within 10 feet of someone doing a finger prick?

    And definitely put things in writing!
     
  15. Sarah Maddie's Mom

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    Apply this notion to, say, a child who uses a wheelchair or has a prosthetic leg.
    The child in the chair/with the leg is in a classroom with a child who is wheel chair phobic or afraid of the prosthetic leg. Would the school require the child in the chair/with the leg to leave the chair/leg in the hallway? or to drape the chair/leg with a table cloth to protect the sensitivities of the chair/leg phobic?:rolleyes:

    When "needle phobia" or "wheelchair/prosthetic leg phobia" are recognized by section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities act then we'll talk. Till then, it's just a ruse to discourage testing in the classroom.
     
  16. thebestnest5

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    Thank you, that is what I feel. And, the school did back peddle from needle phobia to The "only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well."

    And, this is after all the other excuses that they wouldn't let her test in class...when I refuted those reasons with documentation of safety of testiing in classroom, importance of not losing classroom instruction time, etc...then and only then did this come about...and needle phobia changed to "sensitive to medical procedure".
     
  17. nanhsot

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    I haven't been following this thread as I do not have a child in school so have no experience with all this but read a bit today and find this all so odd.

    Why is the responsibility on YOUR child to leave? Why can't the other child step away...or just not look?? If child with phobia is in front of the classroom and child with T1 is a few seats back, discretely testing, how on earth would phobia child even know?

    I'm sorry but this sounds like a stonewall to me, to keep your child from testing in the classroom. I find this so infuriating.
     
  18. Jason's mom

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    We've had ard meetings, IEP's, accommodations, etc. since J started school at 3 because he has Down syndrome. Over the past 16 years of these meetings, we've had plenty of opportunities to go through ridiculous discussions with school officials. My best suggestion is this... I would completely quit even discussing the "other children". Although you care about everyone's welfare, you have to take the stance that you're only responsible for your child. As long as the discussion continues to include other kids/issues, they can continue to detract from the real issue. Although we can all think of a hundred different ways to accommodate the other child and even wonder if, in fact, that child is in the same classroom, it really has nothing to do with your situation.

    Focus on the medical reasons why they have to accommodate your child. Anything else is not your issue - it's theirs. And they are the ones who have to figure it out.
     
  19. selketine

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    I also agree with this - it is up to the school to figure out how to make everyone's accommodations work - not up to you to figure out how to accommodate your child's needs with other's child's IEP or 504 plans - whether they exist or not - or seem ridiculous to you or not.

    If you have attempted to educate them, have shown them applicable state and federal laws and perhaps state or local policies, I'd do as Hawkeye suggests and contact OCR - and the ADA - go from there.
     
  20. GaPeach

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    Let's use the same logic back at them - if a student has a phobia of academic tests, can the whole class accommodate him by not taking any tests. :rolleyes:

    At our school, there is a child that is terrified of Fire Drills because his own home burnt down once, :( so should all the other students forgo safety due to his fear.

    Gee whiz, tell the school to quit making excuses and insure that your child can take care of his medical needs.
     

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