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Navigator and the new Freestyle strips

Discussion in 'Continuous Glucose Sensing' started by selketine, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. selketine

    selketine Approved members

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    I ordered strips as usual through Kaiser and they sent me the new style of Freestyle strips (they have a butterfly on them and a different looking end for the blood collection). I called Abbott and they say that they are not approved for use with the Navigator so they are looking for some place to replace them for me but they couldn't find any local pharmacy that has the old ones.

    If the product codes are the same (is this the case?) I don't see a way to get our Kaiser pharmacy to order the older ones.

    They are replacing the strips I have (the one bottle). I called Kaiser and they say they order the strips directly from Abbott so they should be able to get the right ones from them next time I call in an order.

    Wow is Abbott stupid to make two different strips with the same product code.:rolleyes:
     
  2. Nancy in VA

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    Read the threads about the OmniPod PDM - same problem. I think what we don't know is just because they aren't FDA approved, does it mean they won't work right, or just that they don't have the "seal of approval"

    I don't really care because I get mine on eBay or Amazon, but maybe I'll stock up on older ones while the getting is good
     
  3. selketine

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    Yeah I know some people say they work fine with the Pod and others are not sure. I don't want to open them and then find out I'm not happy with the results. I have not seen reports of anyone using them with the Nav yet.
     
  4. Nancy in VA

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    I think maybe because there are so few of us still using the Nav.

    One of our units did the spontaneous reboot this morning - I was quite perterbed. But, we're still chugging along with ours waiting for the next one. Can't wait.
     
  5. selketine

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    Yeah - me and you and a few more. They must know us by name at Abbott.:rolleyes:

    I wonder how this strip issue is affecting the users in Europe and Israel where the Nav is being sold. I will have to ask Lightnng about it.

    Also when I called the Nav support line, I first got a recording that no one was available to take my call and to call back later - but it switched over to regular Abbott customer service (!) without me pushing any buttons. I asked the woman and she said that they have so many fewer Nav users that they have cut down on the staff and the regular CS people are taking Nav calls part of the time.:(
     
  6. ecs1516

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    Carol
    Did you listen to the FDA AP conference yesterday? Dr.Diamano(sp?) who I thinks works with DRI was saying they use the Navigator for their AP they work on and that they felt it was the most accurate. He went on to vent about all companies that make good CGMs(Pointing to Abbott) should stay in the game for researching and users. He said that it really hurts people when they quit making the product. He went on to say address the people there ,that if they use Navigator and theirs breaks then they are out of luck.
    This was live yesterday. Thought it was really interesting.
     
  7. selketine

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    That is really interesting! I could have attended that - just up the road from me - but I was busy with something else.

    The Dex rep once told me that Dex makes the sensors for both the Dex and for MM products - I thought that was interesting. I assume Abbott makes them a different way. I just wonder how similar the Dex and MM are - if they have the same glucose sensing "technology" in there - making them generally equally accurate. The Nav is wonderfully accurate for us - there's just all those other problems. I still think Abbott has the superior product on the accuracy issue - just from the way people talk about their cgms. But that is certainly an unscientific view!
     
  8. Nancy in VA

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    Carol: Our pump CDE who has been working with ALL CGMSs - swears by the Nav - even with the hardware problems. She is a big MM pump proponent, and does a ton on MM trials for patients, but swears by the Nav for CGMSs
     
  9. Flutterby

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    I've NEVER heard this before. They are two seperate, and competing companies, not sure why dex would be making MM sensors.. It really makes no sense, I think that Dex rep was misinformed.
     
  10. Melissata

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    My son has been using the new strips in his Navigator with no issues. He likes them a lot better. I have done several control tests with the new strips in the Omnipod PDM and another Freestyle meter and found the new strips to read about 10% lower. I can live with that, after all who knows which one is more accurate until you compare it to the labs? I will be doing that next month.
     
  11. hawkeyegirl

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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's not correct.
     
  12. selketine

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    I don't think so - I was surprised also but I think that what he says is true. They probably don't make the ENTIRE product but the glucose sensing part of it. Back when he told me this I asked about it - I'll see if I can find the posts. He said that ultimately Dex would like not to sell directly to consumers but have their technology used by the pump companies - much the way I think many of the infusion sets are made by one company (Unomedical) and made a little differently this way and that - and MM, Animas, etc. sell them as their own.

    Of course I could be talking out of my backside here - but I think I'm right.:p
    I think Dex would like to be like Unomedical - making the sensors for many or most devices sold through other companies - like MM, Animas, Pod, etc. I think Abbott is different however and does not use the Dex/MM product.

    Thanks for the info! I thought they might work just fine - good to get more reports of that happening. I do find the FS strips to almost always read higher than the One Touch strips we usually use (he has a Ping and insurance pays mostly for One Touch strips). His cgms is almost more accurate to his One Touch than the tests done with the Nav and the FS strips.
     
  13. Flutterby

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    When you look on the sensors for mm, they say they are manufactured by MM.. when you look on the box of sets for the pumps, they say they are manufactured by unomedical for mm.. if dexcom manufactured MM sensors, they would say it on the package. ALso, if Dexcom manufactured MM sensors, why on earth would they let a compeating company have the sensors that are approved for children? I think the rep was misimformed. It just doesn't make any sense.

    Animas and MM shared technology. They don't manufacture it for each other, but they shared some technology with each other.
     
  14. selketine

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    I think there is a link in the technology used for the Dex and MM sensors. I'm sure it is not the entire product but something there. I'd honestly have to call the guy again to get precisely what he said. I know I expressed surprise and he said that Dex wanted to get OUT of the business of selling directly to the consumer and have their part of it be used by the competing pump companies. Whatever he told me made sense - was back in April though and I maybe I didn't post about it.

    I think the end products are different which is why they have different approvals. Hard for me to recall the conversation from 6 months ago though - sorry! Maybe I'll call him back and ask him that.;)
     
  15. Flutterby

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    I guess it makes sense if they are sharing technology.. I've never heard of this, just that they use the same type of technology, but not that one gives (or sells) it to the other.
     
  16. selketine

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    Ok - I called our Dex rep - he is really a font of knowledge when it comes to this.:)

    He says that the same engineers who designed the technology for the MM cgms also designed the Dexcom. When Medtronic bought Minimed they bought the Dexcom technology - and continued to expand on it. The MM and Dex cgms both work on the same "platform" which is enzyme technology and the Navigator works on "wired" technology. He said the engineers who ultimately designed the enzyme technology went on to become Dexcom - but the two companies split at that point. He did add that Dexcom would ultimately like to become the sensor technology for pump companies - like Animas and Omnipod - perhaps then not selling a stand alone system - or at least not directly selling to consumers but through other companies.

    So MM and Dex have their roots from the same engineers and use the same sensing technology still (enzyme) - but the two companies have expanded on it - but the type is the same. Navigator is completely different technology (wired).

    Now I gotta go chase some butterflies......:p
     
  17. selketine

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    Ah....caught 2 already...

    I just wanted to add that I think (back to my original point) that this difference in the technology behind the products (enzyme vs. wired) could be why some think the Nav is more accurate than a MM or Dex.

    I know that is a whole other debate - but this comment stems from Carol mentioning that the doc at the artificial pancreas conference said that the Nav was used because it was the most accurate, etc. so this could be WHY it is.

    Back through the looking glass....:)
     
  18. Nancy in VA

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    Carol: The difference in technology is what my CDE has been talking about all along and I think why she prefers the Nav.
     
  19. Flutterby

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    Ok, THAT makes sense.. so the engineers broke from MM and created dexcom with the same technology that they developed while working for MM (or medtronic).. so dexcom has nothing to do nor did have anything to do with MM, it was the engineers that went from one company to form their own.. In that case, I'm surprised they were able to.. typically engineers have to leave any rights to whatever they developed behind.. that is probably why they are slightly different.. they have the same core, but are structured different.. If they are working with two pump companies, thats big business for them, I can see why they would want to do that.. but at the same time consumers need options, otherwise we won't get the best, they'll be no competition. If there was only one pump and one cgms, they're be nothing motivating them to strive to become better, more accurate.
     
  20. selketine

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    I think the Dex conference call noting the new FDA requirements for integration are interesting all around. I wonder if this FDA thing is what has been holding back Abbott. My kids have a half day of school today though so I'm not going to have time to figure out if the FDA thing is recent or could have been known earlier in the year - but just now coming to light.
     

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