- advertisement -

Long question regarding school nurse & history

Discussion in 'School and Daycare' started by schuttv, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. schuttv

    schuttv Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    I've been having problems with the school nurse. She isn't following the doctors orders nor mine as well as changed the doctor's orders. Doctors orders contact parent >=300 and <=65.

    This is the rundown of what has happened with my daughter Brittany. I'm sure I've overlooked a few situations in between but these are the major ones.

    9/23/2008
    I sat in the nurses clinic for 2 hours and gave her juice, crackers, glucagon, emergency kit with batteries, infusion sites, Cozmo user guide, and requested a 504 plan put in place. Teresa Sprouse (clinic assistant) told me she knew how to deal with diabetics and had certain paperwork she could only use from the doctor. I asked her to get a 504 plan started and she stated she would look into it.

    9/25/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 434 no contact from school - ketones not tested

    9/26/08
    Brittany didn't return to the clinic, for a supervised bolus and nurse did NOT contact me to tell me this.

    9/29/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 364 no contact from school - ketones not tested

    10/1/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 500 at 7:50 no contact from school until after 10:25. Teresa Sprouse called me to inform me that Brittany was 500 and had no ketones so she decided to give her water and exercise her to bring her blood readings down. I asked her why she did that? She proceeded to tell me that prior doctors told her to do that. I told her, prior doctors were not treating my daughter and high glucose readings and exercise causes ketones and will put Brittany in the hospital. I then asked her if she asked Brittany if she ate breakfast, she stated, no. I asked her if there was insulin on board, she stated she didn't look. I told her from now on with any questions please contact me. Do not wait to contact me. Questions need to be asked before doing anything especially giving extra insulin and exercise.

    I then called Cheryl, RN at elementary school and informed Cheryl of what happened. I asked her to retrain Teresa Sprouse.

    10/20/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 479 no contact from school

    10/30/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 500 no contact from school

    11/7/08
    Brittany was in PE, health class and felt shaky. Mr Guertler, the gym teacher, coudn't find Brittany's juice and crackers. Brittany came home and told me.

    11/11/08
    Ms. Sprouse called me to tell me a teacher needed juice and crackers. I asked her if she could talk to the teachers, especially Mr. Guertler and make sure they are all aware of where Brittany's juice and crackers are because it is unacceptable that she was low and he couldn't find any. She said ok.

    11/12/08
    I received a call from Mr. Guertler explaining to me, he knows where everything is now, it was misplaced but he immediately gave Brittany a pass to go to the nurses office, which Ms. Sprouse omitted to tell me. But Ms. Sprouse couldn't find juice and crackers and sent Brittany BACK to PE without treatment. Ms Sprouse recanted and stated, Brittany refused treatment and she released her.

    11/12/08
    Called Ms. Wilt, informed her of my findings. Called Cheryl again to inform her and asked her if she can retrain Ms. Sprouse because I was at my wits end. She told me to set up a meeting with her.

    11/14/08
    Meeting with Ms Sprouse, Mr Craft, Brittany's dad and myself. We sat down, discussed the problems that we've encountered and how we were going to fix it. We gave her the paperwork on how we wanted Brittany to be treated. She stated she would read over it. all had a copy.

    11/17/08
    Blood sugar for lunch was 354 the day after a meeting with Ms Sprouse, Mr Craft, Brittany's dad, myself regarding handling Brittany Schutt. She was handed over paperwork on how we wanted Brittany treated and she stated she would read over. She called left a message for me regarding Brittany's high blood sugar, then contacted Brittany's dad. He asked Ms. Sprouse when she was going to recheck Brittany since it was at 11am and she had no clue. Asked Brittany what time are you going to recheck yourself? He said no she needs to be rechecked in an hour or so to make sure she is coming down. It's right in the paperwork we gave you.

    11/20/08
    Meeting with Ms. Sprouse, Ms Wilt (Assistant Principal), Abbey Jones (Guidance Counselor), Brittany's dad, Cheryl Baker . We discussed the problems we have encountered again. We wanted a 504 plan. It was also mentioned that I requested this to be in motion as of 9/23/08 and Ms. Sprouse never did anything with it. She dropped the ball on that. She should have made sure it went to the correct place or contacted me.

    11/24/08
    Received a call at 3:30pm from Teresa Sprouse regarding Brittany's glucose levels.She did not call me during any incident! She called me to ask me regarding the activity bus however, when I started asking her questions about how she handled it, she refused to answer any more questions regarding my daughter. She told me that Brittany came into the clinic at 9:40 before PE to check her blood sugars to see if she should take PE. Brittany was 317. Brittany told her that she ate a poptart. She didn't ask Brittany what time she ate the poptart. At this time, Brittany had 2 units of insulin on board which would cover her high blood sugar, however, Ms Sprouse told me she had Brittany give herself a small bolus. I asked her what is a small bolus? She stated, she didn't know. I asked her, you mean you had her give herself insulin and didn't ask how much it gave her? When checking her pump, her extended bolus was canceled and she was given an additional 4 units of
    insulin and told to go to PE. With the extra insulin, PE, then lunch at 147 and more insulin she crashed at 38 at 1:42. I asked Ms Sprouse to transfer me to Ms Wilt the assistant principal, she refused to transfer me and stated she was aware of the situation and was working on the 504 plan for Brittany.

    I hung up called Ms. Wilt, told Ms. Wilt the situation. She had Ms. Barbara Smallwood, Teresa Sprouse's Supervisor call me. She called me, stated that Ms. Sprouse went to diabetes training at UVA and knows to recheck after high and low blood glucose readings and she didn't know why she refuses to preform them. She stated this was my point of view and she would look into it. I told both Ms. Wilt and Ms. Smallwood that Brittany wouldn't be back to school until they could have a safety plan for her because mistakes keep happening with this child. She stated that someone would get back to me the following day.

    11/25/08
    Called Ms. Wilt, she was out of the office, asked for Mr. Fletcher, school principal. Told them if he didn't call me back, I would call the superintendent's office. Mr Fletcher never called me back. Mr. Craft, the Assistant Principal called to tell me that Ms. Sprouse, Ms. Smallwood and Mr. Craft all decided the plan would be to call me before Brittany has PE. I told him no, the issues are bigger than PE, it was extra insulin, it was exercise with high blood glucose readings, it was sending low blood glucose leveled child to walk around the school and that I wasn't going to allow someone to put this child in the hospital. The plan had to be better than that. He said he'd call me back. I received no call back.

    I called Ms. Walk the Assistant Superintendent and she set up a meeting for Monday at 8am.

    I contacted state health careworker she looked over the 504 and suggested that Brittany be held accountable for herself. She also stated this was a personnel issue and that we did need to make sure their was a safety plan for Brittany.

    I contacted State Executive Assistant to Superintendent. He contacted Dori Walk to verify a meeting was set up.

    12/1/08 Meeting with Assistant Superintendent, RN from elementary school, RN supervisor, two assistant principles, and guidance counselor. I asked for a new nurse and told no. I asked for an aid for my daughter and was told since she was on the pump and her age, she did NOT qualify for one. Assistant Super decided on her own to make the 2 assistant principals and principal take care of Brittany in Leu of the clinic assistant.

    Assistant Super sent a letter that went against everything that we requested as well as state Brittany was going transistion back to the clinic assistant shortly. I asked her AGAIN for an aid and she specifically told me I never asked, as well as her reasoning now is due to how Brittany would feel. Brittany was ok with one! The assistant super is also trying to MAKE Brittany be 100% responsible for herself when the doctor's orders CLEARLY state that she needs ADULT SUPERVISION for blood testing, boluses and carb count. I understand she needs to know how to do these things and she does, but when she is low or high, she CANNOT THINK and needs that supervision. Right now with all the changes, Brittany's numbers are ALL OVER THE PLACE. They are now trying to make it to be a blood sugar and flucuation issue rather than a clinic assistant not doing her JOB. I had to have the doctor to provide a statment to why she is fluctuating, ie: not washing finger well, not letting it dry, a blood sugar reading of 150 could as easily be one of 190 or 120 and taking it 3 times in a row can make that change. Their nutritional value count for school lunches, not being abel to determine the serving size or knowing what various fruits are.

    Any rate, I called CPS, waiting on their investigation to determine if the clinic assistant was neglectful as WELL as changing doctor's orders. This conclusion will determine my daughters fate at school and what will be done. I'm not sure I agree and feel like I need to take other avenues.

    ANY SUGGESTIONS????

    Thank you,

    Vikki
     
  2. Mama2H

    Mama2H Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,236
    Have you put a request in WRITING for a 504? Schools can be a pita :( I would make sure to request every single thing they refuse to do in writing, make sure you are logging everything and send them a copy of your records every single time there is an incident. Call the ADA and tell them what is happening, they may have an advocate in your area. DO NOT let them bully you, that is what it sounds like they are doing. A 504 is a legal document, once they receive, in writing by certified mail that they must sign for, a request for a 504 they are breaking the law if they do not set up a 504. Do you know who the 504 admin is?
     
  3. Mistync991

    Mistync991 Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,105
    i would do everything i could to get a 504 in place and dont know that if after all these problems i would send her to school untill one was in place ...with this not only could this disregard to her care and dr's orders cause Miss smarty pants nurse who obviously has no clue to loose her job but also cause the school to loose funding if it is not followed and a complaint filed ...luckaly when my daughter was dx the school knew what day she was coming back and had the head over all the nurses there as well as some other head lady with a 504 in hand to be filled out that day ..there were still a few bumps allong the way for us but it sure helped that were bound by this ..if it were me and i have done this i would be at that school with my whole day cleared ready to throw any fit i had to untill this was resolved THAT day and i would continue to go up the ladder and demand better and ANOTHER nurse that has done more than just go through some classes about d who actually knows what to do and how serious it can get when she dosent do what is ordered
     
  4. Becky Stevens mom

    Becky Stevens mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,719
    It might be time to call a lawyer. Schools dont like 504s I understand that cause it makes them be held accountable...which is a good thing! type 1 diabetes is a disability under section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act therefore any child that attends public schools that receive federal funding with type 1 diabetes has a right to a 504 plan that outlines that childs medical needs and how they are to be met. This Ms Sprouse sounds like a real winner to me. Keep up the good fight!
     
  5. Abby-Dabby-Doo

    Abby-Dabby-Doo Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,804
    Unless I missed it... it would be very helpful if you posted which state you are located in.
     
  6. Daxdog

    Daxdog Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    837
    How old is your child?
     
  7. Gwyn

    Gwyn Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    928
    It must be really stressful to deal with all this in a new school. I hope that things will go more smoothly once the school realizes how dangerous their lack of understanding has been.

    You are getting good advice here.

    I would suggest writing up a list of what you expect from the school personnel (by name or title) and have your doctor sign and send it to the school. In your next meeting, go over it word for word with all the people listed in it. It's not a 504, but it could be a starting place.

    Our school also denied an aide, and DD had just turned 7 at that time, so you likely have an uphill battle there. That doesn't mean she can't have someone to help her though. I would attempt to find at least one person at the school who has connected with your daughter and talk to them about being a "go to" person for your daughter if she was having trouble during the day--maybe her home room teacher or a coach would be willing?

    Good luck!
     
  8. schuttv

    schuttv Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Thanks!

    Thanks for the responses. We are in VA. My daughter is 11 and has just transitioned from elementary to middle school. We had some issues in kindegarten when Brittany was first dxd, however, since then nurses changed and no issues. Sure maybe a burp but nothing major. They always had an RN in our school as well. "Budget" can't handle RN's in all schools. Whatever. I always thought Brittany did have a 504 because the elementary school told me she did and we met every year to go over it. I think it was just to "please" me if you will. But her "504" ended up turning into an IEP and she "didn't NEED one" according to the school. I've requested the 504 plan since day one of dxd. Boy was I stupid! Any rate, since coming back to VA and entering the school, I've asked the middle school on 4 different occasions. We have had a 504 meeting and they are just "waiting on the doctor" to provide a letter stating Brittany's diabetes can effect her education. This is NEEDED in order to implement the 504? The thing is these are temporary measures of putting Brittany with the assistant principals and the principal for care. Brittany mainly does all the work, but they keep an eye on her; which is what the "nurse" is supposed to do. My main points with the school is she's not following orders, she changed the doctor's orders (not directly but told CPS that the doctor filled out the first form and that's what she was following and it was NOT from the doctor!!), she exercised my child high because that's what other doctors told her to do, she left my child untreated with a low, and then she over doses her with insulin. They claim they can't fire her because it's a contract. HELLO??? So she can kill my daughter because her contract is more important? I don't get it.

    So basically what I've done is contacted CPS. They will have a report if she was neglectful or not by the 5th. That will determine what happens with the nurse I guess. I have new doctor's orders for the school because they are nit picking over the old orders. I've contacted all the administrators within VA to get help but unfortunately when you go up, they send you back down! So I went to the school board; they never contacted me back. They are NOW because I filed a discrimination claim with the board of education in MD, against them and let them know.

    I just feel at this point, maybe I do need an attorney and follow up further. My concern is for my daughter, but it's also for those children with all disabilities who is still being treated by that nurse!!! There are no policies in place for this kind of behavior because of a contract?

    I keep telling them, they do NOT realize the implications of diabetes. We are not talking about a missed antibiotic dose. They can't get it through their pea sized brains.

    Thanks again for all your information. ARRRGGG I have been fighting while they've been out of school. HA wait till they come back :D I do have to say one of the Assistant Principals is doing a GREAT job with Brittany. Documenting, calling me, etc. That's all I asked for, when in doubt, CALL ME!!! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK??? The doctor's orders basically say the same thing. They were trying to say that the doctor and I were not on the same page...We most certainly ARE! And who is it for the Assistant Superintendant to tell me WHEN my daughter should MANAGE HER OWN diabetes? Isn't that up to the doctor, me and her? This lady is clueless!

    I'm sorry I'm now back on my rage about this. Every time I think about it; I get all stirred up again.

    Thanks again!!

    Vikki
     
  9. schuttv

    schuttv Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    One last thing, the first time I requested a 504, it was verbally to the nurse. She claims I never asked. Whatever and yes, I did request the 504 in writing via email. The other times were all verbal and in meetings. Supposedly, it's in the works and again waiting on the doctor to provide the medical letter stating her d will effect her education. Then her health plan is in conjunction with the 504 because they can't be together? Has anyone heard that?
     
  10. cwdAdmin

    cwdAdmin Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Forums Reminder: Privacy

    Just a reminder that the CWD Forums are public, and to please carefully consider that public nature when referring to other people (children, spouses, medical professionals).

    Also, there is a chance that referring to another person may create a misunderstanding or a situation where a person feels their reputation has been harmed.

    For the protection of our members, and in order to maintain the privacy of others, we encourage you to share stories/situations using generic names (e.g., "school nurse" vs. "Mary") as much as possible.
     
  11. Ellen

    Ellen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    8,240
    Thank you for sharing your opinion.

    I believe every student with type 1 diabetes in the public school system should have a 504 plan as well as a health care plan. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    The fact is there are not enough licensed nurses in ever school district, so IMHO willing lay persons who are willing to be trained, should be allowed to do so. As you must know, most parents of children with diabetes are lay persons and we learrn immediately from diagnosis to go home, monitor blood sugar, give injections, count carbohydrates from the get go. There are plenty of capable persons in schools who can handle those tasks competently, and work in conjunction with the parents. In these austere times, it's even less likely there will be enough licensed nurses to go around and working parents must be allowed to drop their children off each day to school and know their child will be afforded the same educational opportunities as every other child in the school, and parents in school districts that do not have licensed nurses, should not have to come to school to give an injection for meals and snacks. The 504 is a law to protect our children's needs for accommodation and is vital, and no child should be refused such a plan.

    Respectfully, I ask you to put yourself in our shoes. While some nurses may be trained in diabetes care, few are specialists in diabetes, and even fewer really know about type 1 diabetes. In a perfect world, we'd have a qualified nurse who is well versed in type 1 diabetes in every school. But, alas, we do not live in a perfect world, and our children need assistance today, this minute in time...and cannot afford to wait until counties, school districts, states, etc. negotiate whether or not they will allocate funds for nurses. I urge you to read Dr. Fran Kaufman's (a pre-eminent scholar on diabetes and children) editorial on how only a nurse can properly care for a child with diabetes in school is "balderdash" (her word). The editorial is here: Nurses' argument on insulin is balderdash - Inside Bay Area

    You could be ever so helpful in training lay persons in your school district so each and every child with type 1 diabetes can have the proper support in school.
     
  12. Mama2H

    Mama2H Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    4,236
    In a perfect world.......... Our experience with school nurse's has been less than pleasant, and yes in our itty bitty school (2 schools actually, middle school in one town elem and high school in another) there is a FULL TIME Rn with a BSN (Bachelors of science and Nursing) but she is useless when it comes to Type 1 Diabetes, the woman has no clue. Until nursing SCHOOLS start spending more than 5 minutes on TYPE 1 diabetes, we, as parents of children with Type 1 Diabetes, face an uphill battle to get what our children need.

    I am put off by the condescending tone in your post. Just because it is against the law doesn't mean that we, as parents, have not done everything we can to get the schools to follow the laws. Schools and THEIR nurses do not want to do what it takes to help our kids. They have Type 1, not Type 2 and most schools think they are the same thing.

    In court according to the ADA and MANY other publications that we have ALL researched in depth, the only things that keep the school legally liable and affect their federal and state funding are a 504 and an IEP. A "health plan" has NNNNNOOOOO legal standing to force the schools to do what they are suppose to be doing. A "health plan" is a flimsy piece of paper that states what is "suppose" to be done for a student. Kind of a joke for a child with Type 1 Diabetes since we as PARENTS change the dosages almost DAILY and the health plan would have to change daily to stay up with this.
     
  13. KitKat

    KitKat Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    898

    Could you be so kind to tell us which state you live in? Also, a 504 plan and DMMP (or health care plan) are NOT the same thing. One addresses medical needs and the other addresses medical needs AND accomodations.

    A child who does not have a 504 plan is in danger of not having their needs met and a school nurse, principal and school district know this and do not want to be legally bound to a 504 plan.

    So, are you telling me by being a parent and having lay people trained to care for my son they are breaking the law because the are acting like nurses? I guess I am heading to jail :eek:
     
  14. schuttv

    schuttv Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    can you delete this post then?
     
  15. schuttv

    schuttv Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Well quite honestly I had a medical management plan that WAS signed by the doctor. It still was NOT followed and NOTHING has happened to that nurse. She did NOTHING wrong in the eyes of CPS, or the school. Had she killed my daughter OR my daughter pass out from not treating her low, then she would have been liable. What is that? Why are we not protecting these kids? So basically we want these children to die or pass out before we'll do something? This is backwards in my opinion!!! We should protect BEFORE something horrible happens. That document provided by the doctor should have been enough until the 504 plan was in place. They still AREN'T following the 504. To me, it's all a piece of paper and even if you file a complaint, like I did, it doesn't go anywhere because they give the school time to "negotiate". HELLO???
     
  16. BozziesMom

    BozziesMom Approved members

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,863
    And who the hell are you?

    I had a "certified" diabetes educator with a master's in nursing who was supposed to be guiding us. She was a condescending, useless witch who didn't even know what an I:C ratio was. I learned everything I know about D management from reading books and spending all my time here on these forums.

    Unless you have a child with T1, have T1 yourself, or have any useful information, I don't understand why you're even here except to toot your own horn and make everyone feel like they are somehow personally responsible for the failure of the schools and govts to provide adequate "licensed" care to our children. You roll in here and start preaching to people who've been living this nightmare for years. You don't know wherefrom you speak.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice