- advertisement -

Licking the Bowl [and Other Food Rituals]

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by SandiT, May 7, 2013.

  1. mamattorney

    mamattorney Approved members

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,076
    Its funny that you say that, because, aside from the ever changing ratios due to tons of 70 -80's BG's, we're loving the honeymoon. It just seems like her remaining insulin producing cells/glucagon cells always have my back.

    On Sat., we were having stuffed pizza (I live in Chicagoland) for the first time post diagnosis and myfitnesspal says each piece is 54 carbs. Fine. Give her the correct bolus and we sit down to enjoy our meal.

    Until . . . I see the crust sitting on her plate and I remember that she's NEVER eaten the crust ever in her life and I panic a bit. She's probably eaten less than half the carbs that we dosed for. She's stuffed (no pun intended) and doesn't want to make up the carbs.

    I say, fine, but "listen to your body, because you may end up low". No complaints and 3 hours later at bedtime, she's 83. That should never have happened, but it did and we're taking it while we can get it!
     
  2. Nicole N

    Nicole N Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Good points Sarah! :)
     
  3. mmgirls

    mmgirls Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,030
    Nor is it fair to you either, or to your family.

    AS HARD AS IT MIGHT BE TO ACCEPT

    You are doing a great job whether you get perfect numbers or whether the meter reads higher or lower than you expected. I think you are being entirely too hard on yourself, numbers are just numbers, they are not a "grade" on how well or badly you have calculated carbs or eyeballed that 1/8 of a unit. Your part in controlling the numbers is so small, especially for a honeymooning child.

    You need to take a moment and think about what you want to remember, and what you want your child to rember about this trying time.

    For me it was that I want to remember that she was a normal kid that ate grandma's christmas wreath treats and had a mixed up Slurpee from 7-11 just like I did when i was a kid. That if someone offers her a candy or treat she may take it and ask me if she can eat it "now" even if now is not the best time for any reason not just the "D'" ones.
     
  4. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    Thanks for not taking it as cranky ;)
     
  5. TheLegoRef

    TheLegoRef Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    If you wanted to, you could weigh it. If you have a scale, and knew the weight of the bowl, and knew the total weight of the mixture, and the total carbs for the whole batch of mixture, you could. You'd weigh the bowl prelicking, give her the bowl, let her lick it, then weigh after. Subtract the weight of the bowl, and find the carbs for the weight of the mixture. This part might be obvious, but I'm going to say it in case it's not. The total carbs for everything in the bowl, divided by the total weight of the mixture in the bowl, would give you a decimal (ie .64), and take that times what she ate (probably small like 15 grams), and that would be how much you'd bolus for. Again, forgive me if any of that was obvious. Someone reading might not know. :)
     
  6. mmgirls

    mmgirls Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,030
    we have done this! especially for those xmas treats that are odd, like grandmas corn flake, butter and marshmellow wreaths. We did a carb count the first couple of years and now just have the carb factor written in the cook book.
     
  7. kirsteng

    kirsteng Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    170
    This was a big issue in our house as well, as I have always been a baker and my youngest has been my number 1 helper since he could hold a spoon. He was d/x'ed at Christmas, so I didn't make our traditional Christmas morning cinnamon buns last year, and felt really sad about missing out on all those little Christmas baking rituals with him (and all my kids by extension).

    But I've come to realize that I CAN make baking work - even on NPH. My son gets novorapid and NPH at breakfast and dinner... so I time my baking to coincide with either his morning or afternoon snacktime (timing the finished product with snacktime). He is allowed 20-25 carbs for those snacks, so I figure out how many carbs are going to be in the recipe of whatever we're making (really not hard to figure out, and I also write it in my recipe book so after a short while all the faves are already figured out), and then I make sure I give him a slightly smaller one of whatever it is, and let him lick the bowl. I also make sure though that there isn't TONS left in the bowl, just a spread-out fun amount. He is always thrilled with both the baking and licking... and we've never gone wrong with the numbers so far.

    I so understand the sadness of wanting your child to feel 'normal' in these small ways (that are big in the heart). Put your calculator to good use, watch the clock, and I bet you CAN make it work (and seem easy-breezy about it all too!). ;)
     
  8. kirsteng

    kirsteng Approved members

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    170
    Oh and I wanted to add: I try as much as possible to beef up the protein in all my recipes now. I add an extra egg to muffins and cookies, exchange some of the oil in muffins for greek yogurt etc. Seems to help the numbers...

    And make everything whole wheat wherever possible.
     
  9. SarahKelly

    SarahKelly Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,147
    I remember feeling overwhelmed about this at first, too - almost like I had to be a ninja baker doing it on the sly. But then I had a cheesy moment to me where that dumb line from Dr. Phil popped in my head, "hows that working for you?" Just thinking about that made me change a lot of my choices for how I was handling things with my son with diabetes. Isaac has always been sensitive to carbs so a lick of batter would make his BG go up quickly, so I started giving him insulin right when we started baking, I would cover him for about how much a cookie or a slice of banana bread or whatever we were making - he'd get insulin for one serving. Because he ALWAYS eats at least that much while baking :)
    Another small thing for me was not starting our day with a fingerpoke, so instead I started checking him about 15 minutes before he woke up, so that when I had to wake him up it would be just that a quick snuggle awake.
    For us, pumping has made all of these things more simple, giving extra insulin for licks and tastes is easier, turning basals down or up if BG is rising/dropping at wake up, cranking the basal for car rides and decreasing it for exercise/weather, and so much more...
    I hope you find a way to make this work for your family, I know you will :)
     
  10. Michelle'sMom

    Michelle'sMom Approved members

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,432

    Well said!

    When anyone mentions that a study disproved what I know works for my dd, I always point out that my dd was not involved in that study. :)
     
  11. tammy82

    tammy82 Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    I usually don't have much left in the bowl but will give something small between 5 or 10 and then check her a time after that.
     
  12. pianoplayer4

    pianoplayer4 Approved members

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,060
    I didn't read all of the replies so sorry if this has been said but this is what I do;

    I try to guess how many cookies worth of dough I'll be eating... (in your case when you give her the bowl to lick you could just look at whats left and guess.) at my house we eat the dough while making it as well, so its a lot more than if you were just licking the bowl at the end. You just guess, and you learn, and maybe make cookies early enough that you could fix any bg problems before you go to bed.

    Once you're on the pump it will be easier, because you can guess, and if she eats more than you thought you can just bolus again.

    For other things (like the crasins) you're dd is 6 right? so I would just put things that are that high in carbs out of her reach, and stock the lower shelves with things like nuts and cheese... and remind her that (once she's on the pump) she can have snacks if she tells you first.
     
  13. liasmommy2000

    liasmommy2000 Approved members

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,314
    And while this may not be much help while your dd is still on NPH, I make up baggies of snack items. I will put in a serving of crackers, fruit, veggies, chips etc and then write the carbs on the ziploc bag. Usually I will put a normal serving size but sometimes for tiny nibbles I will half that. With the pump it's easy for her to grab and bolus according to what is written on the bag. However sometimes we will be out of made up snack baggies or she wants something that I'm cooking and in that case we just WAG it (wild a$$ guess). I know it's hard now but seriously in a few years you will find you just go with the flow and it is MUCH easier to handle. Oh not the numbers, they will probably always be up and down but you won't stress over it nearly as much. Just do your best to balance good numbers and your child being a child and it will be good. I mean sometimes you can do everything perfectly and the numbers are still wacky. It's just how it is and most of us just can't be perfect without going crazy.
     
  14. mmgirls

    mmgirls Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,030
    There is something specific that I have not touched on yet with your posts. How much 1 carb will raise your daughter's BG. Her ratios are smaller now, but still so extremely tight. One bloody craisin miscalculation and she's at 296 (oh, you had 5, not 4? oops!).
    So a few carbs will not raise her BG from 150 to 296,there is a maximum amount of energy that the body can get out of 1 carb. If her BG does go up to 296 after a few carbs it was not the carbs that raised her BG. It was other hormones or a lack of basal insulin, possibly it is the liver releasing glucose as it works on fats and protein? so many variables but not the carbs, (unless there were more carbs than you calculated that is). This is something very important to consider when treating lows and the ability to not overtreat, many use way less than 15 carbs to treat a low because they want to not swing thier 50# child from 70 to 190 right before eating when they have no active insulin going.

    There is a chart on pg 191 of pumping insulin
    at 50#'s 1 carb will raise 8 points
    at 75#'s 1 carb will rasie 7 points
    at 90#'s 1 carb will raise 6 points
    at 120#'s 1 cab will raise 5 points
    at 160#'s 1 carb will raise 4 points
    at 200#'s 1 carb will raise 3 points


    Her sensitivity to insulin is the hardest part for us right now

    This will get better once your child is not honeymooning and kicking out insulin ontop of the insulin that you are giving her. But you will have to still consider activety levels that will increase her sensativety to insulin and the decrease the absorptions of carbs at the same time.
     
  15. Megnyc

    Megnyc Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,373
    I also wanted to add to this that once you get your pump (I think you are planning to pump soon?) it will be SO much easier to dose for small amounts of carbs. I have a 1/70 carb ratio in the late evening and with my pump I can give insulin for 2 carbs precisely. I need about .028 for those 2 carbs and I can dose .025 with a few clicks. There is no way you could do that with a syringe. I can't figure out how you dosed for those craisans. You must have better eyesight then me ;)

    While pumping can make things more complicated I think it will make things a lot more normal in terms of eating. I lick the bowl all time while baking and just enter a few carbs every so often. It gets easier...
     
  16. SandiT

    SandiT Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    296

    I actually... hadn't thought of that... :eek: And the thing is, I should have!

    Thanks. :D

    I do understand how it's supposed to work, lol. I don't know why or how it goes the way it does, but it's repeatable and predictable. She has lots of unpredictable highs and lows, too... but it is literally repeatable that if I under or over dose just slightly, it goes wonky. Yeah, sometimes it goes wonky anyway. But when I can give her the same exact food, and vary the dosage with it one way or the other and her body reacts the same way... I can't help but feel like it's having a direct effect. Maybe it's just coincidence every single time it behaves predictably, but I'm not really buying that.

    I don't know what's happening with it. Liver action or the honeymoon thing... maybe when I under-dose, the pancreas dumps a bunch, and then the liver freaks out. I cannot begin to speculate. What I do know is that it's predictable and happens each time. I have to nitpick down to the last carb, even including ketchup. Because if I let her have some ketchup, she will zoom way up. I understand it shouldn't work that way. I really do.

    But it does. And it makes me so frustrated. It's almost making me believe in "The Secret" where you can create it yourself, lmao. Cause it's just far too predictable and it never fails to happen when I get the dose off.




    The problem, Meg, is that I too often do NOT get the dose right. The stupid needles are SO hard to control. It's less about being able to see it right, and more about how hard it is to control the plunger in 1/4 of a dose increments. But you spend 5 minutes trying to get it JUST so, and then you think, "OMG, I am being SO stupidly paranoid! Just give it to her, 1/4 unit does NOT make that big of a difference! GOD!"

    Lo and behold, though... every single time, she's way high or way low when I don't get that dose right. Coincidence, law of attraction, whatever... I can't stop being frustrated by the whole thing.

    The damned plunger is the problem. :eek:
     
  17. mmgirls

    mmgirls Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,030
    Are you using 1/2unit syringes? and you could use something like this to help get the dose just right.

    Also two other things, draw the pludger up and down a few times(cycle) right where the dose is and then draw up more insulin than you need. I draw up 10 for 8units, and then take the vial off and push the plundger to the dose, its wasteful and you smell insulin but the easiest on tired eyes.

    I really think that most of your most fustrating issues with the numbers are from the NPH, this insulin is just simply not working for you guys.
     
  18. SandiT

    SandiT Approved members

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    296
    We aren't using 1/2 unit syringes. Can't get them through CVS. I do definitely pump the plunger a few times, good suggestion. :)

    I love the look of that magnifier, and I'm going to get one (already bought it, lol). Even though we're transitioning to the pump, I would really like to have one for any times we need to use needles for any reason.

    And actually, in this case, it's the breakfast and dinner novolog that's giving me these fits. Granted, NPH is giving us hell, too. BUT, the problem is that by snack time, if I haven't dosed her correctly, she's either high or dangerously low (2 hours after breakfast). Which of course, if she's off at snack time... she's off at lunch time and the whole day is shot.

    I'm so frustrated and ready for the pump, lol. And I KNOW she will be much happier about having the pump and being able to eat more normally.

    It's a frustrating, tearful waiting game for me right now. I know the pump won't fix everything, but at least I'll know that I have the ability to deliver more accurate doses.

    With the endo's blunt, short dismissal of mixing/diluting insulin, and her curt dismissal of the cgms, I'm just ready to get to a place where I feel less like I'm the problem.

    The stupid syringes and I go around and around. I've thrown a lot away because of misdraws when trying to mix the NPH and the novolog, too. So it's not just the novolog that makes me miss with the syringes.

    I just can't control the plungers very well, and it's frustrating because it's not like I'm old or something, lol. My hands work fine, mostly... but in the most important issue in my life, they're epic failzor.
     
  19. Sarah Maddie's Mom

    Sarah Maddie's Mom Approved members

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    12,521
    SandiT, sometimes you have to take a step back and not let yourself get so worked up about everything. It's not good for you, it's not good for your kid.

    Living with Type 1 is hard. It's hard for all of us. And if you let every little thing brew into a big deal then you will pretty soon be unable to function. I appreciate that your child is in the "honeymoon" phase and I get that NPH can be complex, especially if you don't have the peak times of insulin fully under your belt, but the first six months are just hard and you just have to muddle through.

    You talk about your daughter going high and low all the time - all D kids fluctuate, so how much are you talking? It may be that what you are seeing is par for the course, but it's hard to tell from your posts because they are not specific.
     
  20. mmgirls

    mmgirls Approved members

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,030
    I can't remember right now, why the NPH, I mean I know it covers lunch. But what is the situation, why can't the school administer insulin? is it a private school that does not have any federal funding to be required to provide care at school?

    When might you move to the pump?
     

Share This Page

- advertisement -

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice