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LCHF diet

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by suej, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Theo's dad Joe

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    My son eats 30-35 grams of carbs per meal with 1 unit of humalog. His A1C is down from 8.7 to 5.9 in 10 weeks. His average meal and bedtime blood sugar is under 100 for the last 4 months. He was diagnosed in January.

    At the time he had been eating a high carb diet, about 270 grams of carbs a day, and at only 50 pounds. That is in line with the basic USRDA. It was about 65% carbs. I personally had moved myself gradually to fewer carbs. My Dad, uncle, grandpa and great grandpa all had diabetes, presumed type 2. I was a biochemist and exercise nutritionist and chemistry teacher over the last 26 years and my wife is a cardiologist. I personally started feeling good when my carbs came down. A lot of the newer science in exercise nutrition has helped confirm that saturated fat and cholesterol is not a cause of heart disease. Actually most of the new research implicates sugar, particularly the fructose fraction, and high omega 6 plant oils. Cholesterol rises primarily as a RESULT of inflammation caused by a high sugar and high Omega-6 diet (in my researched opinion). Butterfat negatively correlates to heart disease. Whole milk negatively correlates to heart disease. Corn oil has a strong correlation to development of type II diabetes while butter and monounsaturated fats do not (butter is negatively correlated).

    So in my opinion, I personally have come to the conclusion that dietary fat, except for omega-6s, are perfectly healthy and should make up most of one's daily calories (50-70%). Among animals, very few get less than 50% of their calorie net from fat, and mostly from saturated fat (fiber is turned into saturated fat/butyrate in the intestines of large animals like gorillas and cows).

    My son eats starch, fruit, veggies and full EXTRA fat dairy with each meal, and also has a mix of chicken, beef and egg but only 1-2 ounces per meal). His plate looks like a normal plate of food.

    For example he has 4-5 small homemade pancakes, banana and a cup of milk for breakfast. Its 30 grams of carbs and 450 calories. That's about what every meal is in macronutrients.

    He was underweight, and now he's growing, and happy and he comes to every meal with a blood sugar of 85-100. I think that combining carbs with fat also lets the basal work on it.

    The first thing to realize is that many fats are good and the body's preferred energy source. The brain of children uses about 100 grams of glucose a day. Anyway, I don't use a "low" carb approach as that generally means less than 100 grams a day, but I use a "glucose needs met by diet" approach in which it is presumed that 100-150 grams of carbs a day provides glucose for the brain and nervous system. The body uses 85% fat most of the time anyway. The percentage drops a little with exercise but even running 6 miles in an hour is only going to burn about 40% carbs and 60% fat.

    The body lives on beta oxidation from oxidized fatty acids. If you eat over 150 grams a day, it gets turned into fat and then used for energy! Anyway this is my educated "opinion" but I don't have time to prove everything on this site.

    I don't advocate Bernsteins ketogenic diet. Essential carbs are needed to protect the lining of the intesties and mucous membranes, and when you go under 100 grams a day the body will show greater spikes in blood sugar. A study of men who ate less than 50 grams of carbs a day for a year found that their fasting blood sugar was 115, an their glucose after a glucose tolerance test was over 200 for 2 hours. After 2 weeks of eating 125 grams of carbs a day they had fasting blood sugar under 100 and were under 150 throughout the GTT. Also, Bernstein is wrong in some of his conclusions. He assumes that a normal fasting blood sugar is 83 (which it is on a high carb diet) and that ketogenic diets are safe (which they may be) and that someone on a ketogentic diet with enough calories to meet their developmental needs should also have an 83 fasting blood sugar, which is wrong. Someone without diabetes on a ketogenic diet will develop an increased fasting blood sugar of 100-115 over time and its considered to be healthly. He is also dead wrong about how high most people (and kids) peak after a full meal.
     
  2. Theo's dad Joe

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    No, I don't. I believe that antigens enter the blood through a compromised gut lining and that that instigates diabetes in people who have the genes for it. Carbs aren't a problem, but cereal grains, except for rice have lignins, and proteins and fibers that harm the gut lining and let in things like enteroviruses. Probably if you have the gene your going to eventually get an antigen leak through and precipitate an autoimmune response eventually. Also dietary fats, particularly butter/milk fat is protective of the gut lining, and we just spend the last 40 years being told to drink reduced fat milk. It IS pretty likely that the autoimmune malfunction is instigated by an antigen entering the body through the gut lining, or other site.

    Second, I said OVER 100 grams a day is optimal! I never said less than 100 grams a day was optimal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  3. Theo's dad Joe

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    A large potato has 25 grams of carbs. You put a tbs of butter on that and you are at 50% fat. Did they just eat boiled potatoes without any butter or oil on them.

    People ate starch. Not 60% starch. Riced is a low toxin cereal grain, and most asian cultures will combine it with oils and pork fat.
     
  4. Theo's dad Joe

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    The Japanese today average about 150 grams of carbs from rice a day (much more than in the past) and they have about the same rate of diabetes as those in the US.

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/rice-v-diabetes.jpg

    Before 1900 they ate rice, but they didn't get half of their calories from carbs, and they also didn't overeat! Diabetes is lower in rice eating countries, probably because rice does not compromise the gut lining like wheat, but the rate of diabetes is higher among those who eat the most rice in those countries, and strongly correlated to the amount of rice eaten.
     
  5. Theo's dad Joe

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    http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sw...ogma-in-favor-of-low-carb-high-fat-nutrition/

    It takes about 5 pounds of potatoes to reach the carb levels that the US government was recommending in the 80s, and 90s. What we did was take the fat away, so instead of 2 pounds of potatoes and fat sources we had to eat 4-5 pound of potatoes because over 30% fat was off limits. Carb based does not mean eating half a kilogram of potatos with dinner. That's about 80 grams, and totally fine, and not a carb-based meal.
     
  6. njswede

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    Butter was a luxury item 100 years ago. It's extremely labor intensive to create by hand churning. The common man would not have access to butter on a daily basis.

    Also, can you define what you mean by "toxin" in "low toxin cereal"? You also need to be more specific which battle you are waging. Are you opposing high carb diets in general or just "high toxin" ones? You can't move the goal posts!
     
  7. njswede

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    According to a separate thread, it's caused by a "leaky gut" that's somehow cause by wheat. OK, I'm a skeptic to a fault, I admit that. And I've been proven wrong before. But the whole "toxin"/"leaky gut" thing sets off so many alarm bells for me.
     
  8. Theo's dad Joe

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    And nobody ate cheese or yoghurt there? It takes a LOT of potatoes to make a carb based diet.

    If not butter, suet, tallow or lard? None of that in Sweden? Grass fed tallow has the same omega 3 to omega 6 ratio as salmon. Stearic acid improves insulin sensitivity, and tallow is almost 50% oleic acid (the main fatty acid in olive oil).

    Again, it takes half an ounce of tallow to turn a quarter pound of potatoes into a "non carb based" meal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  9. Theo's dad Joe

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    Just about every grain has gut irritants, lignins, proteins like gluten, and psyllium which are designed to help the seed survive gut transit and be planted. The gut irritants kill gut flora and buffet colon cells and weaken adhesions between colon cells. rice happens to be very low in gut irritants compared to wheat. Potatoes are low in gut irritants as well.

    But I would say that carbs above about 150 grams a day, unless used to refill muscle or liver glycogen will by physiological necessity gradually reduce insulin sensitivity because there is only one other thing that they can do: use insulin to enter fat cells.

    If you are using the carbs as fast as you are eating them then that is mitigated. If you eat a bowl of pasta and take a nap you are in fact becoming more insulin resistant, and ending up turning it into what? Saturated fat anyway.
     
  10. Theo's dad Joe

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    I found this study to be interesting regarding normal postprandial blood sugar in non-diabetics, and the difference in blood sugar elevation with 50 gram meals that were a) about 80% carb and b) about 25% carb.

    The first thing that was interesting was that 50 grams of carbs raised some non-diabetics to as high as 168 after breakfast, and these are adults. Kids tend to spike higher.

    The second was that the 25% carb meals produced mean peaks of about 111 versus about 135 for the 80% carb meals. That gets you triple the calories in with 1/3 of the rise above 100. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769652/
     
  11. LoveMyHounds

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    That can't be 30 g of carbs...

    milk - 12 g
    banana 20-30 g

    plus 4-5 pancakes??
     
  12. Theo's dad Joe

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    No, I use low carb whole milk (6 grams carbs) actually I will usually add a tbs of table cream which brings it up to about 100 cals and 7 grams of carbs.
    4-5 small gluten free pancakes (4 grams and 50 cals each from butter, and egg)
    and an ounce of banana (6 grams), or will use pineapple, raspberries or other fruit to give 6-8 grams of carbs.

    For 4 half ounce pancakes, there is about a tbs of butter and about 3/4 of an egg. There is about 16 grams of gluten free pancake mix, which is a blend of potato and sourghum. That gets 200 cals and 16 grams of carbs right there. Sometimes I will use high oleic sunflower, but butterfat negatively correlates to basically every disease in the book so I have no problem using it.

    http://authoritynutrition.com/7-reasons-why-butter-is-good-for-you/

    I will take a picture of the breakfast plate tomorrow, unless he wants something else, which he never does.

    The pancakes are basically a tablespoon of batter each. They come out to be "mini" pancake size.

    Low carb whole milk has helped me get most of his meals up to 400+ cals with less than 36 grams of carbs. Even if I do an ounce of cheerios or kix, I can add get another 200 cals in with low carb full fat milk. He is averaging about 1500 cals a day and 105 grams of carbs. I would not go lower, but I also don't believe that there is any reason to ever go much higher. Maybe eventually 150. I personally don't go over 150 grams of carbs a day and once you figure out how to use low cal veggies, and good fat sources, and just a cup or so of rice or potatoes it starts to feel right, or at least it did for me. I had insomnia for years. and it went away when I got my carbs down under 150.

    My son was underweight when the diagnosis came, and when I was focusing on carbs he wasn't gaining weight, he was losing it. When I upped the fat he started gaining back and he's back within the normal range on the growth chart.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  13. Theo's dad Joe

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    http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/articles/64-/431- (CHD caused by high carbs not fat)
    http://anh-europe.org/news/saturated-fat-is-not-the-culprit-in-heart-disease (saturated fat not cause of heart disease)


    This one https://www.idf.org/sites/default/files/attachments/DV58-2_Debate.pdf is interesting because the debate (In clinical care journal) is about whether T1Ds should use VERY low carb diets or around 130 grams carb diets. People, only the Government, ADA, AMA, and old doctors who don't want to tell patients that the low fat diets they've been recommending have shortened their lifespan are still recommending that a T1D (or anyone for that matter) get half or more of their calories from carbs. They will resist because its hard to tell people that they screwed up for 30 years.
     
  14. nebby3

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    At the risk of being blasted as a bad parent-- it was asked how anyone can eat 100g of carbs at once. Try being a growing boy. My (non D) 11yo eats 8 pieces if pizza in a meal (250g of carbs). Even as a baby he ate 5 bananas in a sitting (150g; on daddy's watch and I was mad ; not about the carbs about the related diaper issues). He is thin and growing like crazy. My cwd does not choose to eat that way. But I'd be careful about what you say till you have a teen or almost teen boy. They are eating machines.
     
  15. Theo's dad Joe

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    My son used to often eat 200 grams of carbs after coming home from school, so I know its possible. He had a large macaroni and cheese from a restaurant plus a small bowl of soup sometimes, and milk and added snacks too and since he was so small and thin I never questioned it even though I personally have done so well on a lower carb diet. It he had been overweight I would have changed it. I estimate that he was getting 300 grams of carbs a day at a weight of 50 pounds and not growing prior to diagnosis.

    I am just glad that I was able to come up with lower carb meals, and that my research over the years had already shown me that eating fat is not bad (unless you are overweight and overeating). I could get him 1500 cals with 300 grams of carbs or 1500 cals with 120 grams of carbs, but the 120 grams is a lot easier to manage with good blood sugar, especially since the fat and protein is slowing down the digestion rate.

    And he is happy with his meals, and growing and playing tennis and doing well in school, no lows and so I'm sticking with it.

    I would just caution people if they fear adding fat. Fat is not bad (though soybean, and corn and high omega-6 oils are bad) and adding fat or substituting some fat cals for carbs may be a useful tool.

    I will also mention that 100 grams of carbs would be 2 1/2 times the carbs in a glucose tolerance test for a kid his size.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015

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