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Interested to read Sup. Ct. healthcare decision

Discussion in 'Parents Off Topic' started by virgo39, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. sooz

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    Ahh, so the point is, healthy people live longer so better for people to die sooner to save money. Nice.
     
  2. hawkeyegirl

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    Throwing caution to the wind here at the risk of being accused by SueM. of being "uninformed", but (1) isn't early detection the biggest factor in probability of survival ? (besides immutable things like the type of cancer); and (2) what do you mean by your second sentence?
     
  3. Lee

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    See, unfortunately, my dad ,who had no insurance, avoided going to the doctor at the onset of his symptoms and he was dead in a year thanks to his cancer...

    So, if we look at it black and white, you are saying that only those who can afford healthcare deserve it? Right? Those folks who are lucky enough to have a job that provides them with some form of health insurance are the only ones lucky enough to be alive?

    For some reason, when I think of my daughter and your son, who would be one of those to die off first in the laws of survival, well, that argument just doesn't sit right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  4. Illinifan

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    Really? Now I'm offended on behalf of the mom of a set of twins who have been in Show Choir with my son. She was diagnosed a month ago with breast cancer and has spent the last 3 weeks working referals so she can get the best surgeon possible and the best reconstructionist possible. Would you advocate that I tell her she's wasting her time? She got her mammogram, so according to you, she'll live.

    We are wonderfully and fearfully made. Our complex, interrelated systems are so intricate and complicated that nobody has been able to figure out how to fix everything that goes wrong with them yet. The best that our physicans can do for us is increase the probability that we'll live longer and in less pain than we would have otherwise. Paying for that privilege is not cheap.

    Just in case you've forgotten, which would be a tragedy given the reason for this group, LIFE IS NOT FAIR. No attempt to legislate fairness by Congress or implement by Executive Order by the President or declare it so by the Supreme Court will ever make it otherwise.

    The point of improving our healthcare system is increasing the probability that we will live longer, less pain filled lives. There are no guarantees that that will always be the outcome.

    (Btw, I mentally blocked your kick and nicely returned your leg to its original position so you'll have something to stand on.)
     
  5. hawkeyegirl

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    I don't think you need to tell a board full of parents of kids with an incurable disease that life is not fair.

    Honestly, I do not see your point. At all.
     
  6. Mish

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    I'm sure I need to spell this out since I've apparently just kicked you in the only brains you possess, but the fact is that if you cannot even GET the mammogram and you cannot even GET diagnosed then your chances of living are almost none.

    Life might not be fair. But access to healthcare should be.
     
  7. caspi

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    THIS sums it up perfectly.
     
  8. Lee

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    She should be feeling damn lucky she can do that! Many cannot afford a surgeon, much less the best surgeon. And reconstructive surgery, pish, that's just boobs right, how many women forgo reconstructive surgery because they cannot afford it?

    The debate of fairness - really? I am not in the second grade. To try and boil this argument down to an argument about fairness of the US Government is irrelevant. There are many laws, systems, and checks and balances in place that override fairness.
     
  9. Illinifan

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    Ahh...there's the rub.
     
  10. Lee

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    Exactly...
     
  11. Illinifan

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    So does this mean you disagree with Mish? Because she's the one shouting about how access to healthcare should be fair...just sayin'...
     
  12. Lee

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    No - I disagree with you - this is not an argument about fairness and only a second grader would think it was...
     
  13. lynn

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  14. Lance

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    Absolutely not. I'm just saying that it's not always as simple as saying that prevention will save money. The assumptions that people make need to be challenged. There seem to be a number of people who are willing to accept a lot on faith regarding this healthcare bill - when most of the rules are yet to be written. the 2500+ pages was just a framework, with political appointees responsible for writing the actual rules. I wonder if the supporters would be as gung ho for this if a Secretary of HHS Rick Santorum were writing the rules?

    While I see a number of scare tactics on one side, I see too much blind trust on the other.
     
  15. hawkeyegirl

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    Look. Access to healthcare will never be fair. People who have more money will always get better care. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

    But I believe that our country is great enough that we should not tolerate people going without some basic level of healthcare. There should not be a person in this country who cannot afford insulin, who cannot afford to take their sick child to the doctor, who cannot afford mammograms or essential medication or birth control. Fight all you want as to what should be included in this basic level of healthcare (pumps? CGMs? MySentry?), but I do NOT understand arguing against PROVIDING a basic level of healthcare for everyone.

    Then rich folks can still buy their private supplemental policies and they don't have to worry about being stuck with the same basic level of healthcare as the unwashed masses.
     
  16. Lance

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    You missed the point completely.
     
  17. Illinifan

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    Reasonable, well-thought out. I see nothing to disagree with here.
     
  18. hawkeyegirl

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    I get your point. I've read plenty of articles discussing whether or not early detection of things like prostate cancer saves lives or not, and there are arguments to be made on both sides that are valid.

    My point is that there are a lot of inefficienices in this system due to the very nature of this system and that by fixing some of the inefficiencies, we can provide healthcare to more people than we are now. How is that a bad thing?
     
  19. sisterbeth43

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    At the risk of being the butt of some comments I may not like, I'm just going to throw my 2cents worth in here. I have just read (actually skimmed some of it) this whole thread. What I can't understand is why we can't have a discussion on this topic--or any other one--without picking out small words comments that get the discussion off topic. People constantly sniping at one another over the use of a word or mention of any little thing. Can't we have a discussion on here as reasonably mature adults. Someone, not sure who, mentioned that the Democrats and the Republicans need to work together for the good of all of us. I'd like to suggest we all do the same. I'm not saying that we can't have differences of opinions, but lets not get snarky about it. Sorry if I have offended anyone.
     
  20. danismom79

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    What do the people who fall just outside of those limits do, and what do they do if they need treatment after testing?
     

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