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Extending the Honeymoon/Looking for an Endo

Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by Mellaril, Aug 17, 2012.

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  1. sheeboo

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    My pleasure!

    We were told our (vegetarian) 58lb. almost-9-yer-old should be eating ~190CHO/day. She consumes between 120-200/day, depending on activity, appetite, and Italian water ice consumption :p with an average of about 160; I've been meaning to look up the guidelines, and your post was the perfect motivation.
     
  2. Lisa P.

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    I believe I muddied the waters, Wilf. The OP was asked how the endo knew the Type 1 diagnosis was correct, and I don't think it was addressed. If her child has actually been misdiagnosed and is Type 2 it might explain how his current system is working so well for him and all our inclinations to tell her not to be afraid of insulin might actually be counterproductive.

    I think it was worth addressing that there might be a mistake. I'm assuming from the OP's tone (intelligent and aware) that she would already have known if her child might be Type 2, but most of us didn't know the difference when our kids were diagnosed and we just ran with what the doctor said. Also, there is a huge stigma around Type 2 and I do know many who feel a Type 2 diagnosis is something to be ashamed of, it can muddy the issue a lot.
     
  3. Lisa P.

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    Oops, sorry, hadn't read ChristineJ's post.
     
  4. Lisa P.

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    Oh, no, you're bringing back traumatic memories! :eek:

    When Selah was diagnosed we were breastfeeding, she ate some baby food but not much. We were told by a dietician to feed her 140 carbs a day, and when I asked if it was really necessary she told me if I based her diet too much on protein and fats it would be hard on her liver!! Honestly, I was, in a friend's apt term, stuffing her like a duck.

    Soon after I heard a report that recommended adult Type 2 diabetics should eat 200 carbs a day. Now, I realize adults aren't growing, and that this is intended as a lower carb diet. But the idea that a 250 pound man might be told to eat 200 carbs and my 18 month old, 24 pound daughter was being told she *must* get 140 down a day!?


    Any guess how much less stressful diabetes became after I chucked her info and fed my kid only what she was hungry for?

    Well, shoot, you were probably there when I was doing this!!:cwds::cwds:


    That was the first in a long line of experts that I figured out didn't have the first clue about my situation.

    I think guidelines are helpful, but definitely am a strong advocate of tailoring to the individual!!
     
  5. sooz

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    Just want to throw milk into the healthy carb mix kids should be getting. Unless there are dairy issues of course, kids need calcium. I just looked up human breast milk for the heck of it :D. It has more carbs than cow milk, 17 g. per cup.
     
  6. MomofSweetOne

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    In the hospital at diagnosis, we were told to order 75 carbs per meal. Because my daughter reacts to gluten, we were ordering hamburgers without the bun, etc., so to get to 75 carbs, her tray was FILLED with juice, several orders of fruit, etc. After two meals, they told us to just order what she wanted. I think the 75 g was for their convenience in dosing. Than, her trays sat out in the hallway for 30 minutes or more while they tried to figure out the carb count and dose. She was quite frustrated that she was hungry and her food was getting cold!!!!
     
  7. Lee

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    But your situation is different from the parent that deliberately limits their child's carb intake to make T1 easier to manage. Kids need carbs, and no, we don't have to overstuff them :D!
     
  8. Zymotic

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    Yes they are. That's why I decided to finally jump in after a year. People on this forum jump all over people who use a low carb diet to help control blood sugars. How else can you characterize statements like: "incredibly restrictive and unhealthy diet, social and emotional costs that are incalculable." The majority on this forum stress that they must make their child's life as "normal" as possible (ie. they must be able to eat cake or pizza if other kids are too).




    That's your choice and I'm fine with it. I don't agree with it however. I believe it falls in line with modern medicine's mantra of "just take this pill". I believe eating a typical american diet while with or without type 1 diabetes is unhealthy. I was taught that the best way to manage type 1 diabetes was to eat low carb.


    You're a regular on here so I'm not sure how you can say what you said above. These type of statements are all over this board. People on this board are most certainly saying they will be emotionally messed up by not eating what others are eating. As to your second question: we all are eating the same way as a family to help our son with Type 1. Question: has the person who originally started this thread replied back? No. He was probably run off like many others that post about low carb.


    Are you suggesting I'm restricting my other 4 children's carbs to teach them an important life lesson?


    Yes, Christopher I do realize who I'm talking to. This is a forum for parents with children with diabetes.
     
  9. Zymotic

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    You said, "...there is a social and emotional cost to a child to have to live with extreme dietary restrictions that are incalculable." What you statement said is someone who is restricting their child's diet will have social and emotional costs that are so large that they can't be calculated.

    Synonyms for incalculable: incalculable, countless, immeasurable, inestimable, infinite, innumerable, measureless.

    We restrict our son's diet and you are saying we are doing innumerable damage to him. Take responsibility for your critical remarks instead of blaming others.
     
  10. steph

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    I find this so interesting. at diagnosis, we figured the carbs of all of her meals, except maybe that first one. as an aside, i hated how unhealthy the hospital food was, and i complained about it. we feed my daughter a healthy diet, but there were no cereals that didn't have sugar added, no whole grain options, even the applesauce had sugar added. Ridiculous.
     
  11. Zymotic

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    I wasn't trying to make a mathematical analysis of the importance of diet vs. insulin. Perhaps I could have written it better. Of course the only reason type 1 diabetics are alive is insulin. My belief is that insulin alone isn't as effective as when it's combined with a different way of eating.

    I don't think you'll fine many type 1 diabetics that need the message that they need to be on insulin.
     
  12. Zymotic

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    First line in the mayo clinic article: "Nutrition for kids is based on the same principles as nutrition for adults." As a country where as our nutritional principles gotten us? An epidemic of obesity and heart disease.
     
  13. Zymotic

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    How is it different and what's wrong with the parent that limits their child's carb intake to make T1 easier to manage (or in our case, to vastly improve blood sugar control)?

    What science (not doctor) can you site that demonstrates that children need vast amounts of carbs?
     
  14. buggle

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    My son honeymooned for 3 years. We are vegetarian and complex carbs are the foundation of our diet.

    Here are the reasons I believe that carbs (only talking about good quality complex carbs, not poor quality, processed foods) should not be severely restricted and replaced with protein and/or fat:

    1. As mentioned by others, the brain alone needs about 100 g of carbs a day and growing children need even more to support their growth and activity levels.

    2. Diabetics are already at risk for kidney damage and arterial disease. High protein can accelerate kidney damage and high fat can lead to arterial disease.

    3. People need insulin - especially growing children. Insulin has over a hundred known functions besides regulating blood sugar. If you restrict carbs so you don't have to dose with insulin, then the insulin isn't available for other functions if the pancreas can't produce very much of its own.

    The only thing that I'm aware of that could possibly be of any help in extending the honeymoon is giving the child about 800 mg of DHA per day (this comes from researchers at Barbara Davis Center).

    I completely understand parents wanting to do anything to keep their kids from developing diabetes. But once it starts, there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it. I feel that the disease itself is enough of a PIA that there's no reason to make it worse by having it control your kid's life and not be able to eat a normal, healthy diet. With modern pumps and insulins with different duration times, it's entirely possible to keep a decent blood sugar range while eating a diet that includes carbs.
     
  15. nanhsot

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    Ditto this~after maybe the first meal HE was required to figure the carbs (but he was double checked by the nurses and/or CDE)...he himself adored the food options, nachos at midnight, ice cream upon request...I was appalled. He still talks fondly about "room service" in the hospital.
     
  16. wilf

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    Well in the context of the OPs original post, that is what we're ostensibly dealing with in this thread..
     
  17. Lee

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    Just about every nutritionist and scientist in any developed country...unless, of course, their name is Bernstein.

    Children's brains need a balanced diet to develop. And I won't touch the emotional damage that is done to a child that is forced to eat differently for no good reason, much less bare the blame placed on him by his siblings for the radical change in their diets. I am just sharing my opinion here, based on my reaction from reading your initial post. It isn't meant as an insult to your parenting technique, just an outsider sharing her uninvited opinion.
     
  18. wilf

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    Children don't need the carbs in soda pop, ice cream, milk shakes, chocolate, sweets, chips, etc.

    They do need the carbs in fruit, veggies, and grains. We all need at least some carbs, fat and protein. It's nutrition 101.

    The term "vast" is not defined in your post. If you're restricting not just the former (junk) carbs, but the latter (good) carbs then you're setting yourself up for problems.

    A good nutritionist can provide very useful advice on these questions. :cwds:
     
  19. Amy C.

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    Hopefully, the OP will come back and join the lively discussion. Her/his last post was #9. This one is the #79 on the 8th screen.
     
  20. Zymotic

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    Where do the nutritionist get their training? Did they all come to independent conclusions or are they all just reading from the same playbook? Bernstein? You're right. What could we ever learn from a quack like him that has an A1c of 4.7 and has had type 1 for 70 years.

    You're not going to "touch the emotional damage"? Um, didn't you just touch it by typing that? "Forced to eat differently for no good reason?" Perhaps you should ask them if they think preventing damage to their brother's body would qualify as "no good reason".

    I asked them what they thought about eating low carb. My 8 year old said it was no big deal because they had high carb syrup when Owen had low carb. My 10 year old said he wouldn't want to do it if Owen didn't have type 1 but he thinks it's worth it since he has seen the difference in his blood sugar. My 10 year old tests and boluses him frequently (shockingly his brain is still functioning somehow despite the lack of carbs).

    What amazes me is how small of an opinion many of you have of children. If I believed what some of you read I would think they have no capacity for sacrifice or empathy and they will all grow up bitter and filled with hate that they didn't get to eat potato chips and cookies. No wonder we have so many food issues in this country. It seems like it has become our god.

    I have great faith that my children will look back on their childhood have have overwhelming satisfaction that they were able to help us and their brother in such a valuable way.
     
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