Discussion in 'Parents of Children with Type 1' started by C6H12O6, Sep 15, 2015.
What a crock of ****.
how the hell is "insulin treatment", NEW...???
This scares the hell out of me if they are giving insulin IV??
found this - http://www.trinahealth.com/
not that I am any less confused.
This is so sad, they are making a racket of people that are concerned with taking insulin on a regular basis at home compare to receiving insulin as a "treatment" like Dialysis?
"It kinda teaches your pancreas what it's supposed to be doing" What a load of **** is right. These people ought to be in prison.
Yes, I can not reconcile "any part of my being" to that!
Now maybe these people "feel better" after insulin, I can totally understand that.
But, this at its "best" can only be a "fix" a fix that is so much more costly than daily bg testing and insulin.
it sounds like the premise behind it is that its better when insulin travels through the hepatic portal vein. these are special IV infusion pumps that somehow mimic that action in the way it delivers IV insulin .
but then a lot of things that don't make sense to me are said on the site.
it sounds like an FDA approved adjudicative therapy, they are just failing to explain it properly.
if it heals diabetic foot ulcers I would think it would be main stream, because things like Vac dressings and wound care are super costly , and this is claiming to treat all sorts of complications for which treatment is very expensive
I'm still confused though.
Then there's this part of their website?
I like the part where they say the machine they use to do the treatments is FDA approved. Because that's TOTALLY the same as the treatment being FDA approved. That'd be like some whack job eye doc taking a Minimed insulin pump and filling it up with eye drops and taping the infusion set to people's eyeballs telling them it will cure blindness. Totally okay by this logic because the Minimed pump has FDA approval.
The YouTube video is pretty funny too. No qualifications given for this Ford Gilbert guy that supposedly invented it, and at one point he talks about how this fixes all of your body systems, "Including your autoimmune system." I had no idea my body had a system called the autoimmune system. He also refers to how sugar isn't the enemy, fatty acids are. This makes me think this does nothing to fix blood sugar and they'll just tell people their fatty acids are better, go on your merry way.
Further searching, looks like the general term for this treatment is Outpatient IV Insulin Therapy. And there's not a whole lot of evidence to support it. And their website says it's covered by Medicare and most insurances, but the CMS website begs to differ.
I think that's really the case with newly diagnosed type 1 that is untreated.
I am legitimately confused because the mention the state governor being the grand opening. I don't really know anything about US politics, but it seems weird that the governor would attend .
It sounds like at best they put diabetics on IV insulin infusion for the duration of their treatment session , and titrate it based on glucose readings they perform at the clinic.
the local fox affiliate / station out of Western New York that broadcasts in Ontario runs pretty main stream stories, so that just adds to my confusion - as this sounds like quackery and anyone at the Alabama station could of done a bit of fact checking and realized nothing that is being stated that really adds up or makes sense.
Obviously insulin allows people to metabolize glucose, how does delivering it to them IV mean an advancement in therapy.
I am also confused (and am thinking this "treatment" could be dangerous). If it's outpatient IV insulin therapy and a T1 uses it, how would they go about preventing DKA once the patient leaves the clinic? If they're only infusing rapid-acting insulin, that person's going to be up a creek without a paddle 3-4 hours after infusion.
I also thought AP treatment is a pump and CGM device that is able to independently infuse insulin (and possibly glucagon depending on the device) based off the CGM data.
the part about "Including your autoimmune system" just reminds me how I often see people post that type 1 is a condition where the immune system attacks itself. I experienced an NP using the same basic phrase stating my immune system attacked itself. Maybe its splitting hairs but I think its more accurate to explain I have antibodies to my own beta cells.
I can't figure out if these people are too stupid to realize they are giving misinformation.
The clinics have been around a while. There was a patent lawsuit in California back in 2011, I think. Brought by Dr Aoki, a researcher with Joslin at one time, IIRC. Search ADRI.
working in acute adult medicine at a major urban teaching hospital, I have come to the realization that a lot of diabetics are functioning at the bare minimum to keep themselves out of DKA . but they also rack up a fair number of DKA admissions.
they are lucky if they give themselves 1 lantus shot a day. depending on the individual if they let the lantus shot lapse for much longer than 30 hours after the previous shot they get very weak and vomiting and present to ER where they are admitted to the general medical unit for treatment of DKA.(these are usually mild DKA cases that don't require ICU beds.)
the DKA admissions turn into a habitual thing, a lot are fairly recent age out's of the peds clinic. they went to the first adult appointment, something about the endo or the CDE rubbed them the wrong way so they just never go back.
The fact that you can buy cheap over the counter insulin of any kind in Canada adds to the problem of the already high number of young adults who are lost to follow-up when they transition out of peds.
In Canada a doctor certified in pediatrics can't bill to see a pt over 18. fortunatey, there is a little more flexibility in the US.
It's really a huge problem. I think this kind of clinic is like a band aid solution for people who can barely cope with self management.
This came as a big eye opener for me, but a lot of people are struggling just to keep themselves from becoming acutely ill.
Is there something that says this is for type I? I know that some type IIs use insulin for weeks or months to reverse acute pancreatic shut down from constant high blood sugar, and that they often go off insulin then for years or decades.
I also read somewhere by the way that one artificial pancreas design might have been looking at sending insulin to the liver directly because it greatly decreases the lag time. Most of the delay in insulin action is in getting enough to the liver to supress the action of glucagon.
Insulin doesn't have the same duration of action when given IV. It's out of your body pretty quickly. The more you look on their website, the more they say this is for treating complications, and insulin will still be required.
Yes, they repeatedly it's for both type 1 & 2. Calling it an AP is a total misnomer. It's nothing like a closed looped AP.
I don't see anything that has been linked to in this thread that says it is for type 1. Which link says that?
Why is it nothing like a closed loop AP? It sounds similar to a glucose/insulin clamp procedure where insulin is given at a steady rate and glucose is dripped to maintain blood sugar at a set level. Sometimes this level is set at 70-100 for ICU patients.
I am just trying to understand peoples outrage or concern better as I had never heard of this therapy, but T1Ds can be "clamped" into euglycemia in IC rather tightly, so much so that there has been concern that clamping individuals in at <100 may not be optimal for recovery (some studies show that clamping-in under 140 gives better outcomes.
If someone has had erratic blood sugar that maybe a euglycemic clamp would help them stabilize certain organ functions (like hyperglycemic insulin resistance, or hyper-disposal of insulin by the liver, or a hyperactive glucagon response) that could let them use their regular therapy on a less turbulant baseline.
Why is a euglycemic clamp not a closed looped, OR why is the procedure mentioned here not a euglycemic clamp?
Try the FAQ page on their site.
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