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Another baby for the Duggar family ?

Discussion in 'Parents Off Topic' started by Becky Stevens mom, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Lee

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    Well - I do not think they follow Debi Pearl's child rearing guidelines,and there are many main stream religions that prohibit dancing prior to marriage, like many Baptist branches.
     
  2. Brensdad

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    Better them than "Octo-Mom."
     
  3. hawkeyegirl

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    Yes, I'm aware of the legal definition of child abuse. :rolleyes: I believe what they are doing is emotional abuse. It was stated that what they are doing is okay because it is all that the kids will know. I said that that is not the standard we should use for "okay." I then gave an exaggerated example to prove my point. You're misconstruing my argument.

    Yes, I would say the same thing about people with one child who were teaching them these things. My beef is not with the number of children that they have. As for you staying out of your neighbor's business, well, is your neighbor on TV and in People Magazine crowing about their child-raising methods 24/7? If not, it's apples and oranges. The Duggars WANT attention. They WANT comment. It's how they make money. If they were raising their kids the "average" way (whatever that is), no one would watch. They have invited us into our lives and have therefore invited criticism and comment.

    I do also have a problem with the "buddy system" as it is employed by the Duggars. I am not opposed to older children helping out with younger siblings. Not in the least. However, it appears to me that the older girls are actually responsible for most of the PARENTING of their younger "buddies," and that is completely unfair. Those girls did not choose to have those babies. They did not choose to become defacto parents at age 13, 14, 15, just so Jim Bob and Michelle could live out their dream.

    You do not believe it is harmful to tell a female child that she must obey her husband? That he is the head of the household, and his word is law? That her main duty in life is to bear as many children as possible, and even if it becomes physically dangerous to her, she must continue? That this is her duty, even if she does not want to be a wife, does not want to be a mother? That even if it causes her great mental anguish to bear 5, 10, 15 children, that it is her duty to God to do so?

    I think that is mental abuse. I think it's wrong. I think that they have the legal right to do it. And I think that I have the right to speak out against it.

    True, that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  4. Illinifan

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  5. hawkeyegirl

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    Lord, give me strength. :rolleyes:
     
  6. AlisonKS

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    They do follow the Pearls but it's rather hush hush.. They used to have directions on how to blanket train on their website which is from the No Great Joy book which advocates physical child abuse.
     
  7. thebestnest5

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    The definition was not for you.

    Christopher quoted and asked the question, because he wanted to know how I was defining abuse in my post.
     
  8. hawkeyegirl

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    My apologies. I should have read more closely. :)
     
  9. Christopher

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    Just to clarify: Is this the same book that says the Earth is 6,000 years old?
     
  10. hawkeyegirl

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    Well, since Illinifan actually believes that the earth is only 6,000 years old, that's not going to put a dent in his faith in the Good Book. ;)
     
  11. Sari

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    well here is one thing I want to ask...
    Are all their children healthy??

    I had 2 shots at a kid, one was a miscarriage the other got a life threatening, non-cureable disease. They have 19 "perfect" kids. I am not wishing any of their kids ill will, but I had ONE and feel I got a raw deal! Ross is the perfect child every other way, so I am not complaining. But not stressing daily would have been nice.
     
  12. lynn

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    It looks like a lot of the animosity is aimed at their beliefs in God then anything else.
     
  13. hawkeyegirl

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    I am a Christian and I believe in God.
     
  14. Christopher

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    I think you may be interpreting things incorrectly here. You have said people feel "threatened" buy them and now that people have "animosity" towards them. I don't see it that way at all in this thread. People are commenting on their lifestyle, their beliefs, their childrearing, etc. They are giving their OPINION. And, once again, the only reason we even know of this family is because they made a decision to put their life, children etc on display for all the world to see and comment on.
     
  15. Christopher

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    Ohhh...I see....well....Nevermind! :cwds:
     
  16. lynn

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    I said that they have animosity toward their beliefs in God. Not them. Do you disagree with this?
     
  17. lynn

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    I never said that you weren't. You have problems with the results of their life choices. Their life choices are guided by their beliefs in God. You have made it clear that your beliefs are different.
     
  18. hawkeyegirl

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    Well what does it really matter if they think God told them to live this way, or the Man in the Moon? This isn't Christian-bashing, which is what you seem to be implying with your comments on this thread.

    I'm cutting and pasting this from another board, where a friend of mine said far more skillfully than I can what my issue is with the Duggers:

    The girls should have a choice. However, they do not. Not an informed choice, which are necessary to do anything meaningful or skillful with our lives, whatever it is. The environment they are being raised in is more or less a cult. Save the TLC production crew, they are not allowed access to anyone outside the group of Quiverfull families that constitutes their community! They don't have TV or the Internet. They didn't go to school! They don't associate with anyone who isn't being raised to believe that women exist solely to serve the Lord, serve men, and raise (serve) babies and children. I actually feel more for the kids in their community that aren't a part of the Duggar show/circus. At least the Duggars, due to their notoriety and being better-off financially, have seen a little bit of the world, albeit from the cloister of the family. They also have access to expert medical care that I doubt their peers in that community do.

    Neither the boys nor the girls are getting any sort of preparation for a decently-paying career that will support the huge families they are expected to have, so the rest of them, and their contemporaries, will likely live in poverty. And be inadequately schooled. Generational poverty and lack of education is generally something we try to ameliorate, not encourage. The boys, though, eventually will have the option of at least trying to make something of themselves. The girls have one role. They will have so many children, so quickly, that it is all they will have the capacity to do.

    The girls' suitors, if and when it is convenient for their father to actually let them have one and leave the house, will be handpicked from that small pool of Quiverfulls. We usually think of that as arranged marriage, another tradition that this society generally thinks of backwards and unfortunate for women. They will then have as many children as the husband wants, because he has dominion over the household. Probably several and rapidly. I hope they have happy marriages, because divorce will not be an option. Besides, what would they do with no skills and all those kids? God help them if any of them are married to someone who is alcoholic. Or abusive. Or gay.

    They say this is what they want, and of course it is. Of course they want to do what is right and sanctioned and healthy in their community. Of course they want to be successful according to the way it is defined in their world. And God help them if they don't. They will be ostracized from literally the only world they know - the only world they can function in. Even now if they are perceived to stray morally they get sent to religious re-education programs and banished to the prayer closet (i.e. solitary confinement). There they are held until they are ready to banish their pride and better serve. They are brainwashed such that they cannot conceive of a choice. To choose to live in the other world is so foreign, and believed to be so sinful and wrong, that choosing it would be like death. That's not a choice.

    It's sexism and subservience. It's not right. It wasn't right a hundred years ago, it isn't right now for women in patriarchal societies, it isn't right for people in religious cults, and it's not right for these girls.
     
  19. Lee

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    OK. I think this is the way they raise their kids and that is their choice. I do not find it abusive. Do I agree with it, no. Do I have to agree with it, no.

    I will give you a real life example of how I choose to raise my child that I got called to task for by the school - ie - people who disagree with my choice in raising my child:
    Coco is a smart kid
    Coco never studies for tests
    I never see Coco do homework - she just flies through it and is done.
    Coco got a B in Science.

    Now, I know a B is a good grade. However, I know Coco put no work in getting that B, and if she would have put in about 10 more minutes of effort, it would have been an A. And I told her that in the Parent Teacher Conference - I expect A's because I know you are EASILY capable of them.

    Guess who got a call from the Guidance Counselor and Principle about the amount of stress I was placing on MY child.

    I know the two scenarios are different, but they really aren't. I am raising my child to meet my expectations. They are raising their children to meet their expectations. How is it different?

    Just because they are raising their children to believe something outside of the norm of society, who are we to say that it is wrong?

    And I really don't think this has anything to do with religion, only that is what they are using to justify their belief.
     
  20. hawkeyegirl

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    Becky, I think you cross-posted with me, but read my post above. I think we agree that there are some decisions parents can make that are objectively wrong. We'd probably agree on most of those. This is apparently one area in which we do not agree, but I know we've both looked at other parents' decisions at some point and said, "This is just wrong."

    ETA: I see a lot of parallels here with the parents who let their children die before diagnosis who sincerely believe that God will heal them. Just because their beliefs in God are real and sincere doesn't make their actions any less wrong.
     

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