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12 yr old grandson type 1 diabetic..

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vicki724, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. SueM

    SueM Banned

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    Jeff's "opinion" is based on the facts that he chooses to acknowledge and/or study. This is fine... I simply don't think that his "opinion" is based on more factual information than the other side. That was my point. :)

    No proven connection = correct. No connection = answer unknown at this time.
     
  2. Deal

    Deal Approved members

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    I wouldn't mind reading the studies that show a correlation between vaccinations and t1d. Can anyone point me at one?

    I think the one thing that makes finding the cause so difficult is that the symptoms don't show up immediately. Some people suggest it takes 4-6 months or more in people to get to the point of diagnosis from the day the attack on the pancreas started. Pretty hard to pinpoint the cause due to this delay coupled with the fact that whatever causes it to show up in some people does not cause it to show up in others.

    I also suspect that any science that shows a correlation would be heavily targeted by the lawyers and scientists of drug companies to discredit. That's what happened in cases of tobacco, pesticides, bi-product pollution from manufacturing, etc that have since proven beyond doubt to cause health problems. Unfortunately there is no reason to doubt that this issue would be handled any differently by big business.
     
  3. hawkeyegirl

    hawkeyegirl Approved members

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    There is no "other side" here. There is no evidence vaccines cause T1.
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Founder, CWD

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    SueM, your "belief" in vaccines as a cause of type 1 is well known here. But it is simply not supported by the science.

    You may disagree with the science, but it is the science.

    You also seem to equate the language of science, which is reluctant to claim absolute, as equivocation or failure. But the conclusion of the NEJM article (http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa032665) is rather clear:

    Results
    ... The development of type 1 diabetes in genetically predisposed children (defined as those who had siblings with type 1 diabetes) was not significantly associated with vaccination. Furthermore, there was no evidence of any clustering of cases two to four years after vaccination with any vaccine.

    Conclusion
    These results do not support a causal relation between childhood vaccination and type 1 diabetes.
     
  5. Jeff

    Jeff Founder, CWD

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    Some more recent studies:

    Vaccination and risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus in active component U.S. Military, 2002-2008
    Vaccine 2012 January

    CONCLUSIONS:
    We did not find an increased risk of diagnosed type 1 diabetes and any of the study vaccines.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22075092


    Neurological and autoimmune disorders after vaccination against pandemic influenza A (H1N1) with a monovalent adjuvanted vaccine: population based cohort study in Stockholm, Sweden.
    BMJ 2011 October

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Results for the safety of Pandemrix over 8-10 months of follow-up were reassuring -notably, no change in the risk for Guillain-Barr? syndrome, multiple sclerosis, type 1 diabetes, or rheumatoid arthritis.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21994316


    The rising incidence of type 1 diabetes mellitus and the role of environmental factors--three decade experience in a primary care health center in Saudi Arabia
    J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2010 Jul

    CONCLUSIONS:
    The rising incidence of type 1 diabetes over the last 30 years is not proved to have been influenced by various environmental factors.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20857841


    Consequence or coincidence? The occurrence, pathogenesis and significance of autoimmune manifestations after viral vaccines.
    Vaccine 2005 Jun

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Very few patients may develop some autoimmune diseases following viral vaccination (in particular - arthropathy, vasculitis, neurological dysfunction and thrombocytopenia). For the overwhelming majority of people, vaccines are safe and no evidence linking viral vaccines with type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis (MS) or inflammatory bowel disease can be found.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15917108
     
  6. ecs1516

    ecs1516 Approved members

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    My 3 year old and 10 months old had never had flu shots before they were diagnosed. Mine were diagnosed 6 months apart no family history.

    But, both kids had a high fever virus or something before they were diagnosed.
     
  7. swellman

    swellman Approved members

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    Here's the problem ... in the whole body of evidence there are bound to be anomalies, artifacts and tested false assumptions, in other words "bad data" which, in isolation, looks compelling to whoever cherry picks them - hell, there may even be a study if looked at just right and worded just so might begin to correlate the "elephant theory". That's science in all it's ugly glory.

    The pitfall is giving the very few out of the many equal weight and calling it a "side" - it isn't. Those who gravitate to the artifacts are usually guilty of confirmation bias and cherry pick data to meet their needs or beliefs. Most are aware that this is a logical fallacy but many don't understand the problem with presenting data such as this as "evidence" - it's not - well, it is technically "evidence" but it's "bad evidence".

    As I see it if one want to hold onto something really hard it makes more sense to hold onto the vast trunk of the entire body of evidence not the weak branches of anomalies.

    $0.02

    ETA: If someone tells you something, about anything, medical, science, politics, etc. and you immediately feel like "that makes perfect sense" click this link or Google Confirmation Bias. There's a good chance you just felt it. It happens to everyone and is completely normal and human. The problem is recognizing it and not assuming the feeling is because the topic is more likely to be fact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
  8. StillMamamia

    StillMamamia Approved members

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    Hi and welcome. I'm sorry for the dx.:(

    If it helps, neither of my sons or myself have gotten the flu vaccine ever, and my oldest still got T1 D. I may just get us vaccinated next flu season though. All 3 f us caught the flu recently and honestly, we've never felt so bad.
     
  9. SueM

    SueM Banned

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    Your "belief" that immunizations do not play any role in the development of type 1 diabetes is also well known here. The locked threads tell the story of your opinion on the matter.

    The type 1 diabetes community / organizations will not be the ones to figure out where the increases in the numbers of type 1 diagnosis' over the years have come from, in my opinion. There hasn't been much from them regarding causes / triggers of the disease. Sure, a study here or a study there... but really, not much out there. I can't say whether that is a good thing or a bad thing... Perhaps money is better spent on better treatments, looking towards a "cure"(in whatever form that takes) or other things. I believe that ultimately the "cause" question will be answered by those who are intent on figuring out why our children are sicker overall than in years past (by that I mean, long term "illnesses", autoimmune diseases, autism, allergies, etc). The increases in the above tell the story. The autism community is where to look for differing views in regards to immunizations. That is where the real science is taking place - at this particular time in regards to the vaccination question.

    Look to the links seen between increases in autism and what type of family history is more likely to have children with autism... hint: family history of autoimmune diseases = higher risk of autism. Now, read all about the links (or supposed links to immunizations and autism). They are everywhere. We don't live in a type 1 diabetes bubble. I believe that we are all connected here and it should be looked at in this way.

    The article that is linked in this particular post that I am responded to was done by those responsible for making / producing vaccines in Denmark. Sorry if I don't necessarily want to take the word of a vaccine manufacturer telling me that their vaccines don't trigger type 1 diabetes. :rolleyes: I know, I know... I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist...

    There is nothing wrong with questioning why babies / children should be subjected to as many vaccinations as they are now. We keep adding and adding vaccines without knowing what these increases have been doing to our children. Where is the "science" which shows safety in the numbers of vaccines given to babies these days. Oops... We don't have any, do we?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  10. Becky Stevens mom

    Becky Stevens mom Approved members

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    Hi Vicki:cwds: Im sorry about your grandson's diagnosis. I remember when my son was diagnosed. I was desperate to understand what caused this in my little boy. My son hadnt gotten a flu shot before he was diagnosed. He did have a cold virus that turned into a sinus infection a couple months before. I honestly think that type 1 begins after a snowball effect inside the body. Different things happen, viruses, maybe a problem digesting milk proteins, many things going on in the environment with pollution and different things in our food and water. I think that all these things eventually add up inside the body to start an autoimmune disease. Often times this might start after a vaccination or after a virus or other stress on the body and we assume that must be what caused it. I wouldnt want your child and spouse to feel badly because they had their son given the flu vaccine. I do hope that you come back to join us and point your child and spouse in our direction too. They would be very welcome here;)
     

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