View Full Version : Not to start a riot but
kiwimum
10-12-2007, 02:44 AM
Here is the evidence of the misinformation that surrounds diabetes in the media.
While getting doing his insulin shots for dinner tonight, out of the blue Tyler asked if it would be better for him to have Type 1 or Type 2. Being honest with him I just said that I didn't really know enough about Type 2 to say either way.
He then replied that he wouldn't want Type 2 because then he would get teased about being overweight because EVERYONE knows if you are obese then you have type 2!
Being honest again, I explained that that wasn't necessarily so. After he had walked off I thought:
a. how said he is comparing the two to decide which he would rather have and
b. the media are obviously influencing my child and probably many other children and adults with their views on diabetes.
How sad.
deafmack
10-12-2007, 05:15 AM
So true, you are so right.
Kaylee's Mommy
10-12-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't think you will start a riot :) no riot to start, your right, the media puts to much pressure on the overweight issue for type 2, yes it will influence it, but there is a definite genetic component.. there are many people that are overweight and DO NOT have type 2, and there are many skinny, rail thin people that DO have type 2.. for some people being over weight is what brings out the symptoms and if they lose weight they can get away with just diet and exercise, but then there are those that could lose weigh.. the media is definitely stuck on the lifestyle issue with type 2.. I think its hurting both diseases..they shouldn't focus as much on the being overweight and lifestyle because that isn't the CAUSE of type 2.. that just makes the symptoms come out in people...
the media puts to much pressure on the overweight issue for type 2, yes it will influence it, but there is a definite genetic component..
I agree that there is a definite genetic component. However, diabetes (especially type 2) is becoming an epidemic for which there is currently no known cure. While researching a cure, is it not responsible to try to PREVENT the onset of diabetes? (I know this doesn't help our type 1's, and I do feel the two types should be distinguished better to the general public...but that's not the point I'm trying to make here).
I realize that not all type 2 's are obese (or even overweight...I have a very good, and very skinny, type 2 friend who can attest to that). But the facts are that the MAJORITY of people who develop type 2 are overweight. If the public can be educated that lifestyle and eating habits can POSSIBLY delay or even end the onset of diabetes, I don't think it is a bad thing to get out into the media. It is not blame, it is responsibility.
That said, I'd like the general public to know that my child needs insulin no matter if he eats an apple or candy...that's the nature of type 1. I also believe that while type 1's don't need to follow a specific "diabetic diet", they DO need to eat healthily and in moderation...which is a huge problem in society today, not just among diabetics.
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 10:25 AM
One only has to look at the CDA or the ADA and is shows the risk factors for type 2, I don't seem to remember ever seeing risk factors for type 1, end of subject
One only has to look at the CDA or the ADA and is shows the risk factors for type 2, I don't seem to remember ever seeing risk factors for type 1, end of subject
Yes, and one of the highest risk factors is being in certain minority groups. I wonder what lifestyle change they could make?
Kirsten
10-12-2007, 10:31 AM
DH is T2 and though he is maybe 10-15 lbs overweight, he is not obese. His father is T2, as are 3 of his father's 4 siblings, none of whom are obese. We had DHs D was well in hand before Griffin was dx and it was not too hard to do with diet and exercise.
Of course, Griffin's dx and all the stress and time that that takes has taken a toll on DHs control. Griffin's last A1c was 6.9, but DHs was 8.5.:eek: For myself, I would choose T2 over T1, but neither is easy to live with. They're really not the same disease and to tell the truth I would say that both will in the end be seen as several diseases with different causes that have all been lumped together.
Kirsten
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 10:32 AM
maybe I am wrong but I think sometimes with minority groups there incidence of type 2 increases because of the terrible diets that the typical western diet has imposed on society. This certainly true of eastern countries when it comes to heart disease and our diet, for example Japan now seems to have higher heart disease due to more red meat and less fish.
maybe I am wrong but I think sometimes with minority groups there incidence of type 2 increases because of the terrible diets that the typical western diet has imposed on society. This certainly true of eastern countries when it comes to heart disease and our diet, for example Japan now seems to have higher heart disease due to more red meat and less fish.
I think if you are part of a minority group and living in North America, you are likely eating the same diet caucasions do. ?????? I do not see your point at all.
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 10:45 AM
Natives in Canada seem to be one of the higher sufferers of type 2 here in Canada and they eat the same as your typical westerner, why is that?
I don't think type 2 was as prevelant decades ago when they ate what they had been eating for generations before and they were more active.
Natives in Canada seem to be one of the higher sufferers of type 2 here in Canada and they eat the same as your typical westerner, why is that?
I don't think type 2 was as prevelant decades ago when they ate what they had been eating for generations before and they were more active.
That is my point EXACTLY. They eat the same food. They are not all fat. And they have a MUCH higher incidence of type 2.
So clearly there is a LOT going on genetically to influence developing type 2 diabetes.
A lot that people CANNOT control or PREVENT with "lifestyle".
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 10:53 AM
actually very many are fat as much of the food they eat is crap because pop is cheaper than milk in the north
of course there a lot going on genetically I never said there wasn't and I beleive my first message said weight was a risk factor accordind to the CDA and ADA, I never said it was the cause
actually very many are fat as much of the food they eat is crap because pop is cheaper than milk in the north
of course there a lot going on genetically I never said there wasn't and I beleive my first message said weight was a risk factor accordind to the CDA and ADA, I never said it was the cause
Hmmm. My friend is native, a teacher, skinny, and living right "down" here in the city eating "regular" food. She is type2.:eek:
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 12:02 PM
I said north, it costs 99 cents for 2 litres of pop but $10 for a carton of milk, you guys are just too sensitive, I never said it was their fault. no wonder most people only lurk and don't actually add to these forums
Nobody is denying that there are thin people with healthy diets that will still develop type 2. But, the undeniable trend amongst the general public (at least in the U.S.) is larger portions, less fruit, less fiber, more fat, more refined starches. This leads to weight gain. Not all heavy people will develop diabetes, just like not all smokers develop lung cancer. Using that analogy, conversely you CAN develop lung cancer without ever having smoked (look at Dana Reeves). It is unlikely, but it happens. Does that mean that you shouldn't educate the public that smoking can cause lung cancer? That would be absurd!
Recently there seems to be a growing movement toward more whole grains, less trans fats, etc. I hope that continues. In the meantime, I don't blame anyone for trying to get the message across that diet and exercise can HELP CONTROL diabetes (actually BOTH types), and that it can POSSIBLY prevent type 2 diabetes. By saying this, I don't blame the people who do have type 2. If they eat healthily and exercise regularly, then they are one of the unlucky ones with other strong factors (such as heredity). And the public needs to know that "helping to control" diabetes is not an easy task, and that "good control" (I hate that term) is NOT THE SAME AS A CURE!
Momof4gr8kids
10-12-2007, 12:51 PM
You know, there are genetic components or so they think to complications. There is a guy that is 68 years young, dx'd with T1D shortly after his 6th Bday. That is 62 years, folks, and his complications are few. He stays in tight control now, but there was so little known when he was dx'd that no one knew what was wrong with him before dx, and he had to see 3-4 doctors before one knew. They had insulin of course, but it wasn't the same as now, they didn't understand the carb relationship. He just had to stay away from sugar. He ate tons of fruit, as they had an orchard. People like this man are why they think that some people are more prone or disposed to having complications. That also kind of explains why they can only say that a lower A1C will lower your risk of complications, but they never say prevent, even when speaking of A1Cs in the 5s.
So we know that weigh gain can increase insulin resistance. We also know that loosing weight, or maintaining a good BMI and staying active will not wholly prevent type 2. So there has got to be a genetic factor.
So we know that weigh gain can increase insulin resistance. We also know that loosing weight, or maintaining a good BMI and staying active will not wholly prevent type 2. So there has got to be a genetic factor.
Of course there is a genetic factor. I don't think anyone disgarees with that.
kiwimum
10-12-2007, 04:42 PM
I said at the start that I didn't want to start a riot!!
I was merely making the observation that even my Type 1 son has misconceptions about Type 2 and the stereo types.
While I believe that lifestyle contributes to Type 2, I also know that genes play a huge role. My mum is one of 5 children. Four of those 5 have Type 2 and aside from my mum who I guess would be on the obese side, her siblings are all active slim people. We have recently found out that their grandfather also had Type 2, and several cousins who share that grandfather have it too. These cousins also fall into the fit active box. One even has a son with Type 1!
So the next question would be, where does that leave me??
Guess I have something else to look forward to in my future besides grandchildren! (And not anytime soon I would hope! I kinda wish the Type 2 comes before the grandchildren!)
Momof4gr8kids
10-12-2007, 04:47 PM
Of course there is a genetic factor. I don't think anyone disgarees with that.
Actually I think Megans dad does.
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 04:58 PM
do you see the words when I wrote that, I think not, I was only suggesting that access to poor food availablitiy along with a predisposition as per ADA or CDA guidlines shows a higher risk for getting type 2, I never said it was their fault. Even having symptoms of prediabetes does not mean that you will get it, only a higher chance. As for eating the same food, northern canada natives for generations ate mainly meat, they also are supposed to have the gene from generations ago that allowed them to survive in times of famine therefore their bodies learned to store food effectivly but in modern times this gene can cause problems in the people with a tendency to develop diabetes because in times of plenty, all of us can put on weight and it is a risk factor, not my words but look in the American Diabetes Association or Canadian Diabetes Association websites under risk factors of type 2.
As for being fat, even if your bmi is normal you can still have a high body fat index, this is science, even high cholesteral is a risk factor for developing diabetes in which I am a candidate and that is something that I inherited because I consume practically no dairy, eat only fish and chicken and ride bike 500km per month to work and back
Momof4gr8kids
10-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Maybe I haven't been understanding you properly. I think we all understand the risk factors of getting diabetes. I think most here have read the ADA page........
I guess it gets hard to get your meaning and read you properly through the insults and sarcasm you've been slinging. I am done with this thread.
Megans Dad
10-12-2007, 05:45 PM
what insults are you referring to, please tell me?
actually I have decided to insult someone, the ones who are getting their panties in a twist over this, so sod off, I am off this site for good because so many are insecure when someone has a different perspective, this insult is aimed at JMEB78
deafmack
10-13-2007, 07:13 PM
I said north, it costs 99 cents for 2 litres of pop but $10 for a carton of milk, you guys are just too sensitive, I never said it was their fault. no wonder most people only lurk and don't actually add to these forums
I lived in Norther BC for 5 years and you are so right about the prices. Many people simply cannot afford those kind of prices for a carton of milk.
Barry
10-13-2007, 07:59 PM
Interesting question. Never given it much thought. There's a misperception about D? With who?
Oh, well....just wanted to drop in and say hi.
Have a great weekend.
Barry
wendyc
10-13-2007, 08:07 PM
Interesting question. Never given it much thought. There's a misperception about D? With who?
Oh, well....just wanted to drop in and say hi.
Have a great weekend.
Barry
Barry, didn't you read my letter to Anthony Bourdain? It's probably now on page two, but he's so in tune with things he thinks that T1 is caused by eating too many Dunkin' Donuts!
Barry
10-13-2007, 08:34 PM
Barry, didn't you read my letter to Anthony Bourdain? It's probably now on page two, but he's so in tune with things he thinks that T1 is caused by eating too many Dunkin' Donuts!
Wendy...I was kidding
http://forums.childrenwithdiabetes.com/showthread.php?t=7842
As for everyone else.... the facts don't matter, pls quit quoting them. The perception is what our children deal with...they don't go to school with a bunch of little endos.
Most people think a D Dx is weight related and it won't change for type 1s because of the political correctness that exist. Everyone will continue to be nice and not use "we're not fat, thats the other guys" line and the price for that is our children and others like them will bear the cross that we won't burn,.... like they don't have to deal w/ enough already.
Wendy...I was kidding
http://forums.childrenwithdiabetes.com/showthread.php?t=7842
As for everyone else.... the facts don't matter, pls quit quoting them. The perception is what our children deal with...they don't go to school with a bunch of little endos.
Most people think a D Dx is weight related and it won't change for type 1s because of the political correctness that exist. Everyone will continue to be nice and not use "we're not fat, thats the other guys" line and the price for that is our children and others like them will bear the cross that we won't burn,.... like they don't have to deal w/ enough already.
WOW. The facts count- at our house at least. The truth counts. I`m NOT going to teach my child that it`s ok for him to feel ok at the expense of others. We don`t call it being PC, we call it common sense.
Barry
10-14-2007, 12:15 AM
WOW. The facts count- at our house at least. The truth counts. I`m NOT going to teach my child that it`s ok for him to feel ok at the expense of others. We don`t call it being PC, we call it common sense.
Great...then here's a fact for your house.
The ADA states that 58% of Type 2 Diabetics would live sympton free if they were not overweight. No amputations, blindness, heart issues, kidney failure and so on. Based on what our own organizations tells us, the majority of type 2 people have a choice...
If you have a choice and choose not to control your health then don't look to me for sympathy.
Lets see 58%. Out of the 10 posters on line right now, APMOM, BRENDAL, CHASER, DEANNAS MOM, DESERTEAGLE, AND KALEEES MOM can be free from the symptons of diabetes...FOR LIFE if they eat right and control their weight. Now if any of them choose not to I'm thinking Sammys Mom, Regans Mom, Munsonklein, regans Mama, sammys mom , sams mom and myself cant believe it although we still believe it's their choice to make.
NOW...let everyone in the public believe everyone in the 2nd group had a choice and are choosing to have diabetes . I'm thinking the people in the second group are getting pissed off to no end. Let it go on for a while and the members of the "no choice group" are going to start explaining it by pointing out the group that did have a choice and say "you have mistaken me for someone else, it's them that have a choice, not me"
Barry
10-14-2007, 12:19 AM
WOW. The facts count- at our house at least. The truth counts. I`m NOT going to teach my child that it`s ok for him to feel ok at the expense of others. We don`t call it being PC, we call it common sense.
What expense of others?
For me to correct someone's misperception of diabetes by saying "hang on a minute, Alex's type 2 has nothing to do with eating...yes there are a lot of people w/ type 2 than can control it if they were healthy eaters, but not my son"....thats at the expense of others? Do you think I opened up a can of worms by telling someone type 2s have control? Do you think I dont like fat people? I'm correcting a very derogatory perception on behalf of my son and others like him. It's the truth, which you stated, "counts". Do you teach them to be truthful, as long as no one is offended?
Barry
10-14-2007, 01:22 AM
..... the media is definitely stuck on the lifestyle issue with type 2.. I think its hurting both diseases..they shouldn't focus as much on the being overweight and lifestyle because that isn't the CAUSE of type 2.. that just makes the symptoms come out in people...
LOL....
The ADA states that "58% of Type 2 Diabetics would live symptom free if they were not overweight."
If diet can essentially "cure" most type 2s...they shouldn't focus on it?
What expense of others?
For me to correct someone's misperception of diabetes by saying "hang on a minute, Alex's type 2 has nothing to do with eating...yes there are a lot of people w/ type 2 than can control it if they were healthy eaters, but not my son"....thats at the expense of others? Do you think I opened up a can of worms by telling someone type 2s have control? Do you think I dont like fat people? I'm correcting a very derogatory perception on behalf of my son and others like him. It's the truth, which you stated, "counts". Do you teach them to be truthful, as long as no one is offended?
I'm trying to find something really scary for my son to dress as this (probably his last to dress up) halloween. Any original ideas? Considering either a walking pancreas with a bunch of syringes stuck in or possibly a stereotypical type 2 with a sandwich in each hand. Both have diabetes awareness potential, yeah? Got to have an element of horror though.
It was brought to your attention on another thread that someone`s feelings were hurt by your nasty jabs. Now there is a whole new thread. I don`t think you are a very nice man Barry. I`ll just leave ya to it. Good luck:)
Barry
10-14-2007, 02:34 AM
that is of course the issue....you'd rather your child (mine and everyone elses) face a lifetime of discrimination than to remind the public that your child's situation isn't that of most type 2s and he/she has no choice in the matter.
jendean
10-14-2007, 03:24 AM
I realize that not all type 2 's are obese (or even overweight...I have a very good, and very skinny, type 2 friend who can attest to that). But the facts are that the MAJORITY of people who develop type 2 are overweight. If the public can be educated that lifestyle and eating habits can POSSIBLY delay or even end the onset of diabetes, I don't think it is a bad thing to get out into the media. It is not blame, it is responsibility.
That said, I'd like the general public to know that my child needs insulin no matter if he eats an apple or candy...that's the nature of type 1. I also believe that while type 1's don't need to follow a specific "diabetic diet", they DO need to eat healthily and in moderation...which is a huge problem in society today, not just among diabetics.
Ok, why are the facts that the MAJORITY of people who develop type 2 overweight?
I think that is one specific demographic. I dont think that the majority of people with type 2 are overweight. I dont even bet that it is a strong minority of them.
Risk factors are only to be taken as something that MAY put someone at risk, like for instance, a risk factor for having celiac disease is having type 1 diabetes.
so, does that mean that most people with celiac are Type 1 diabetic? not at all, the celiacs with diabetes are a very small percentage of the many with celiac.
So, yes, obesity is a risk factor, if combined with genetics.
But if obesity alone were a risk factor, then all fat people would have Type 2...
Ok, why are the facts that the MAJORITY of people who develop type 2 overweight?
I think that is one specific demographic. I dont think that the majority of people with type 2 are overweight. I dont even bet that it is a strong minority of them.
Risk factors are only to be taken as something that MAY put someone at risk, like for instance, a risk factor for having celiac disease is having type 1 diabetes.
so, does that mean that most people with celiac are Type 1 diabetic? not at all, the celiacs with diabetes are a very small percentage of the many with celiac.
So, yes, obesity is a risk factor, if combined with genetics.
But if obesity alone were a risk factor, then all fat people would have Type 2...
I never said anything close to the statement that obesity alone was the only risk factor (and even if it were the only risk factor, that still wouldn't mean that ALL fat people would have type 2).
I suppose I should not have made the bold statement that the "majority" of type 2's are overweight. I did not have any official stats to back up that claim, and I apologize for making it. (As you'll see in my earlier post, I have a very good type 2 friend who is far from overweight)
However... "Did you know that nearly 9 out of 10 people with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes are overweight? If you are overweight, losing some weight could help you better manage your diabetes."...this statement WAS taken directly from the ADA website.
Barry
10-14-2007, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=Boo;78082]I
I suppose I should not have made the bold statement that the "majority" of type 2's are overweight. I did not have any official stats to back up that claim, and I apologize for making it. (As you'll see in my earlier post, I have a very good type 2 friend who is far from overweight)
Dont apologize, there are PLENTY of stats that the majoruty of types2s are overweight. I could wipe out your compters free space with those facts.
It's the same as the majority of lung cancer victims smoke. Exceptions yes, but generally true. The more compelling stat is the majority of T2 could AVOID the problems associated w/ D if not overweight.
Even though these facts are undisputed and widely reported by the organizations that advocate for D, pls don't use them to explain to misguided people your child didn't contribute to their D as it offends, not the people with T2, but some of the parents of children with T1 who want to be victims of the public's perception in order to gain sympathy. Very much Munchausen-ish in my opinion.
facts........see below
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
I find this suggestion for a costume incredibly rude to the people who are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
The persistent posts that continuously denigrate persons with type 2, show a blatant dearth of knowledge about the disease itself. These posts are unproductive. Further, blasting persons with type 2 diabetes does absolutely nothing to support me as a parent of a child with type 1 diabetes which is my purpose for participating on this forum. I wish it would stop.
-----------
I agree. This website is called "Children with Diabetes" , and has a forum for type2 kids and adults. The info for this site was given to us at the hospital. It is in the same info pack they give families whose kids are type2. I will let them know that`s probably not a great idea.
Btw, Barry, people on pills for type2 get lows as well. And I hardly think the 58% (the stat you throw around ) constitutes MOST. In fact, that is just over half. So even if you were correct in everything you say about type2`s, it means you would have THE OTHER HALF of type2`s slammed.
Your comments are, for the most part not factual, and just plain rude. Why don`t you just knock it off?
Barry
10-14-2007, 01:12 PM
[QUOTE=3js;78107]Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
I find this suggestion for a costume incredibly rude to the people who are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
The persistent posts that continuously denigrate persons with type 2, show a blatant dearth of knowledge about the disease itself. These posts are unproductive. Further, blasting persons with type 2 diabetes does absolutely nothing to support me as a parent of a child with type 1 diabetes which is my purpose for participating on this forum. I wish it would stop.
-----------
I agree. This website is called "Children with Diabetes" , and has a forum for type2 kids and adults. The info for this site was given to us at the hospital. It is in the same info pack they give families whose kids are type2. I will let them know that`s probably not a great idea.
Btw, Barry, people on pills for type2 get lows as well. And I hardly think the 58% (the stat you throw around ) constitutes MOST. In fact, that is just over half. So even if you were correct in everything you say about type2`s, it means you would have THE OTHER HALF of type2`s slammed.
Your comments are, for the most part not factual, and just plain rude. Why don`t you just knock it off?
[http://http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp/QUOTE]
I'm going to stop spreading facts and start spreading links.