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thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 03:35 PM
I explained the multiclix looked like a pen and they would not even see a needle, but the principal said hearing the click was bad enough and would upset a kid with a needle phobia because the needle phobic kid would know it was a needle when they heard the click.

And, the school says that legally they need me to sign a release to my kid's medical info so the school can talk to the doctor...they school needs this to accomodate my kid through a 504 and start school....

Waiting for ADA to contact me....

Any help out there????????????????

emm142
08-31-2012, 03:41 PM
I explained the multiclix looked like a pen and they would not even see a needle, but the principal said hearing the click was bad enough and would upset a kid with a needle phobia because the needle phobic kid would know it was a needle when they heard the click.

And, the school says that legally they need me to sign a release to my kid's medical info so the school can talk to the doctor...they school needs this to accomodate my kid through a 504 and start school....

Waiting for ADA to contact me....

Any help out there????????????????

Just wanted to say I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds absolutely ridiculous. Hope you have good luck with the ADA.

maciasfamily
08-31-2012, 03:49 PM
you gotta be kidding me!!! Seriously! Make the needle-phobic kid sit on the other side of the room then!!

I hope the ADA will be able to help you out. I'm sorry you're going through this. :(

sooz
08-31-2012, 03:50 PM
OMG how do they justify accommodating the child with a " needle phobia :rolleyes:" and not accommodating your child who has a life threatening disability? What's going to happen to that little darling with the needle phobia if god forbid they get d or another condition that requires shots. I actually think all of the kids in the class would benefit from your child's example of bravery and matter of factness if the teacher and school handled it properly.

ETA what does the needle phobia kid do if someone clicks a ball point pen or snaps a rubber band? Do they ban ball point pens?

thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 03:54 PM
The school feels they are accomodating my kid by saying that she can test in a private place.

hawkeyegirl
08-31-2012, 03:55 PM
Um, does the needle-phobic kid have a 504? If not, that child's needs do not trump your child's disability. Really, this is complete BS.

Here (http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/qa-complaints.html) is the link to the OCR website. It's very informative and you can file a complaint online. If you haven't made your accommodations request in writing, I'd do that immediately, and I'd file with OCR the next day. In the meantime you can talk with the ADA, but I'd get the OCR case going ASAP.

hawkeyegirl
08-31-2012, 03:56 PM
The school feels they are accomodating my kid by saying that she can test in a private place.

They can accommodate the needle-phobic kid (who I suspect does not exist) by having HER leave the room when your child needs to test. :rolleyes:

DsMom
08-31-2012, 03:58 PM
I explained the multiclix looked like a pen and they would not even see a needle, but the principal said hearing the click was bad enough and would upset a kid with a needle phobia because the needle phobic kid would know it was a needle when they heard the click.

And, the school says that legally they need me to sign a release to my kid's medical info so the school can talk to the doctor...they school needs this to accomodate my kid through a 504 and start school....

Waiting for ADA to contact me....

Any help out there????????????????

We have had a 504 for 4 years now...they never asked or needed to access my child's private medical records. This is absurd. I'm sure the ADA can help you.

As for the needle phobic kids...I am speechless. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard on this forum.:eek: How kind of the principal to care for those poor needle phobic children...perhaps your child's low or high blood sugar will just go away on its own...if not, it's only your child's health at stake...those needle phobic kids could have (gasp) nightmares.:rolleyes::mad::mad::mad::mad: Boy, the click of that multiclix could bring on potentially life-altering psychological damage to those poor kids, I'm sure. You'd better warn him to tell kids not to click their ball-point pens either...they may mistake it for that horrifying multiclix sound and suffer breakdowns right there and then.:rolleyes:

Seriously...the 504 plan protects your child's rights here...the principal is full of it. So sorry you have to go through this.:(:(:mad

thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 04:12 PM
Um, does the needle-phobic kid have a 504? If not, that child's needs do not trump your child's disability. Really, this is complete BS.

Here (http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/qa-complaints.html) is the link to the OCR website. It's very informative and you can file a complaint online. If you haven't made your accommodations request in writing, I'd do that immediately, and I'd file with OCR the next day. In the meantime you can talk with the ADA, but I'd get the OCR case going ASAP.


What specifically would I have to request in writing?

hawkeyegirl
08-31-2012, 04:35 PM
What specifically would I have to request in writing?

The accommodations that you're seeking. When I filed my OCR complaint, I first sent a letter to the community college that was hosting the camp telling them that I was requesting X, Y, and Z accommodations under the ADA. I had already met with them and they told me that the only accommodations they would provide would be to (a) allow me to attend the camp with my son or (b) call an ambulance for him. But I wanted the request to be in writing so that I could show it to OCR. They were so dumb that they promptly sent a letter back to me denying my accommodations, so I had that to show to OCR too.

Have you had your formal 504 meeting yet, or is this all just preliminary talk? If you haven't had the 504 meeting, I'd send a letter demanding that, because I *think* OCR will want them to have officially denied a 504 request before they act.

Michelle'sMom
08-31-2012, 04:56 PM
I explained the multiclix looked like a pen and they would not even see a needle, but the principal said hearing the click was bad enough and would upset a kid with a needle phobia because the needle phobic kid would know it was a needle when they heard the click.

And, the school says that legally they need me to sign a release to my kid's medical info so the school can talk to the doctor...they school needs this to accomodate my kid through a 504 and start school....

Waiting for ADA to contact me....

Any help out there????????????????

If you haven't done so already, it would be a very good idea to memorialize the conversations you've had so far. Write everything down....names of the people you've spoken with, dates & times, & details of what was said & by whom. Regardless of who you end up having in your corner (ADA or OCR), you need to prepare.

MOM to KELLSE
08-31-2012, 06:21 PM
Good advice from the other members...the only thing i would add is that if you have anymore contact with the school do everything in writing...if you meet with them then go home and send out either a letter or email or both..(i did both) stating something like....dear mr johns...thank you for taking the time to meet with me on such and such date and for addressing such and such...i look forward to the accommodations of little sally testing in class starting on tuesday and then end on a positive note with something like...looking forward to working with you or something like that....keep copies of everything and initial your letters in a corner..so that you know they have not been changed. It's a battle but you can do this!!!!!!!!

Flutterby
08-31-2012, 06:34 PM
School does NOT need to contact your Dr. The Dr. sends the Health plan, as long as its signed then they don't need to contact them. I have an excellent relationship with K's school and I don't let them contact the dr, if there is an issue, they call me.. absolutely NO reason for them to contact them.

As for the needle phobia kid, to bad, they need to make accomidations for THAT kid to be moved away from your child while she's doing her blood sugar check. Give him an activity, have him skip to the office... The fact is your child is covered under the ADA and has the right to check in her class.. Maybe you should ask the office if the kid with the needle phobia has a 504 and needs accomidations, if he doesn't, then it doesn't really matter if the kid 'jumps' from the sound of the multiclix.. really could they come up with anything dumber? They know you know very well that your child has the right to check at her desk, they are running out of stupid excuses, the fact that they keep changing that excuse proves that they know they don't have a leg to stand on. Definitely contact the ADA, and I'd contact the ORC as well.

valerie k
08-31-2012, 06:51 PM
last year, the school nurse let it slip that she had called my childs dr. I was beyond livid, becouse they kept sending the permission slip home and I kept tossing it out. I made a call to my sons dr that NOBODY was allowed to talk about matthew and his care PERIOD. I made sure it was on the front of his chart in bold letters. Now I have the same problem, new state, new school, they said they would need to be able to talk to the dr we get matt to see. He!! will freeze over first before anybody will get access to my sons medical records. After all the hoops I have gone through getting insurance and such, I finally have an appt on the 6th to have matt see a dr in order for him to get a referal to an endo. This dr and the endo will have the same instructions. Nobody, but NOBODY will get any informtion out of them.


Am I the only parent that would go into a meeting with these people clicking a poker????:D reset, click, reset, click, reset, click, reset, click and repeat!

Tamara Gamble
08-31-2012, 08:16 PM
All I'm going to say is that my son was needle phobic. He has type 1. Go figure. Not needle phobic anymore. I would want to see the certification from his psychologist who is treating him for this condition to confirm it exist. Just saying.

thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 08:32 PM
All I'm going to say is that my son was needle phobic. He has type 1. Go figure. Not needle phobic anymore. I would want to see the certification from his psychologist who is treating him for this condition to confirm it exist. Just saying.


I don't believe I could request that on another kid...but I agree with you sounds like a red herring to me on the needle phobic kid.

So, here's a shortened, summarized reply

Can self-test. The only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well.

They will create an Independent Health Plan for XXX without medical records. However, the only information they say they would have requested would be related to my child's current diabetic status, not her entire medical record. The only person who would have seen those records would have been the nurse.

So, does this mean sometimes they will not let my kid test in class????? What?? How should I proceed at our next meeting???

Flutterby
08-31-2012, 08:38 PM
I don't believe I could request that on another kid...but I agree with you sounds like a red herring to me on the needle phobic kid.

So, here's a shortened, summarized reply

Can self-test. The only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well.

They will create an Independent Health Plan for XXX without medical records. However, the only information they say they would have requested would be related to my child's current diabetic status, not her entire medical record. The only person who would have seen those records would have been the nurse.

So, does this mean sometimes they will not let my kid test in class????? What?? How should I proceed at our next meeting???

I would do what Karla said above and put your request in writing, that she's to check at her desk. Her desk is HER SPACE. If the other child does have an IEP, then they can accomidate him by putting him at HIS DESK on the other side of the room. If they can't accomidate her in the class with this other child, can they simply move her to another room? While they have to accomidate the other child they also have to take her accomidations into consideration, they have to make it work.

And there would be no way in hell I'd let them talk with the dr. It just wouldn't happen. They DO NOT need to speak with the dr. They need to follow dr's orders and accomidate BOTH child (if the other child truely does have an IEP or 504, unfortunately there is no way to know that for sure.).

thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 08:42 PM
I would do what Karla said above and put your request in writing, that she's to check at her desk. Her desk is HER SPACE. If the other child does have an IEP, then they can accomidate him by putting him at HIS DESK on the other side of the room. If they can't accomidate her in the class with this other child, can they simply move her to another room? While they have to accomidate the other child they also have to take her accomidations into consideration, they have to make it work.

And there would be no way in hell I'd let them talk with the dr. It just wouldn't happen. They DO NOT need to speak with the dr. They need to follow dr's orders and accomidate BOTH child (if the other child truely does have an IEP or 504, unfortunately there is no way to know that for sure.).

Is it reasonable for me to request my child test at her desk/locker/gym class, etc....with other kids who may have severe reactions to watching a medical procedure???? The school seems to want my kid's 504 to accommodate the phobic kid's 504/IEP????

The school believes if a medical procedure phobic kid with a 504/IEP is in the same classroom as my daughter --then my daughter has to go to the nurse's office to test her bg.....what do you think???

Beach bum
08-31-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm thinking what do these kids with phobias of blood do when someone skins their knee or gets a bloody nose?

I'm at a loss for words over what the school is doing. Our school cannot contact our doctor and I can honestly say that unless my daughter was in the ER they wouldn't talk to them without my permission.

virgo39
08-31-2012, 08:58 PM
Is it reasonable for me to request my child test at her desk/locker/gym class, etc....with other kids who may have severe reactions to watching a medical procedure???? The school seems to want my kid's 504 to accommodate the phobic kid's 504/IEP????

I think the accommodation that you are requesting, that your child be able to test any where at any time is a reasonable one. And that is what I would push for if it were me.

The school also may need to accommodate the child with the phobia (assuming that's not some trumped up excuse). I don't think it is reasonable to require your child to forego BG testing when and where needed to accommodate that phobia -- when there seem to be other easy and obvious solutions that don't hinder or delay your child from testing. Others have mentioned them -- having the phobic child sit across the class, tell the phobic child to look away or whatever is needed to avoid triggering the phobia -- presumably that would be consistent with how the school needs to accommodate the phobia in a health or science class if there are depictions of medical procedures, etc....

kiwikid
08-31-2012, 09:08 PM
I think they are overthinking the "medical procedure"... Its not as though a needle is on show for others as in a vaccination.. A discreet fingerprick with her hand down by her lap ISN'T a medical procedure for goodness sake.. and if she is pumping, its the same as using a cellphone..

thebestnest5
08-31-2012, 09:25 PM
I think they are overthinking the "medical procedure"... Its not as though a needle is on show for others as in a vaccination.. A discreet fingerprick with her hand down by her lap ISN'T a medical procedure for goodness sake.. and if she is pumping, its the same as using a cellphone..

I agree with you, it boils down to the appearance that the school is really looking for ways NOT to accommodate my child, instead of looking for ways TO accommodate my child.:(

Should my child be denied testing in the classroom or where needed in the school, due to another kid's 504/IEP for passing out viewing medical procedures (love the vague verbiage on that one)?

I just keep shaking my head and asking "Wny? Why?"" It appears the school is just angry that I won't be like everyone else and have the nurse do everything and have my kid test in the nurse's office and they want to make it miserable that I have the gall to not want to follow their policy as they state it.

Flutterby
08-31-2012, 09:32 PM
Is it reasonable for me to request my child test at her desk/locker/gym class, etc....with other kids who may have severe reactions to watching a medical procedure???? The school seems to want my kid's 504 to accommodate the phobic kid's 504/IEP????

The school believes if a medical procedure phobic kid with a 504/IEP is in the same classroom as my daughter --then my daughter has to go to the nurse's office to test her bg.....what do you think???

I think they are full of !#$%. It is reasonable that she be able to check anywhere, including her desk, locker, gym class. It isn't a 'medical procedure'.. she's not performing surgery, right? The school needs to realize that they are being extremely silly. They were just all over the blood contamination issues too, did they drop that issue because they realized how stupid they were being? This is her health, its not some stupid request. There is a lot out there on the issue of testing in the classroom and being able to test whenever and wherever. If this child really does have an IEP/504, I image this child has either a sensory issue and/or autism, and I can see how a clicking noise would bother them. They can not pick which child they will accomidate and which child they won't. They have to make it work for both of them. Just as they say she can leave the room to test, so can he, or maybe while your child is testing the teacher and distract the child by reading or talking to him so the click isn't as noticable. This is just so stupid on the schools part I can't even believe you are dealing with this crap.

Put that stuff in writing and then filing a complaint asap.

valerie k
08-31-2012, 11:00 PM
Its laughable at best to even think there is any child in that grade with a 504 for needle phobia to start with. You should be able to see the 504 with names blacked out if such existed. That would require a doctors note. So... even *IF* the child existed, they certainly would know who it was, and make sure your kids are NOT in the same class as they did with matt and children with peanut allergies. they put all the peanut allergy kids in one or two classes to ensure they had a safe peanut free enviroment.

pens click, gum snaps, pencil sharpeners grate on my nerves... a small click every once in a while is just gonna be another noise in a class full of kids for any kid with sensory issues. Its not like they sound like a cannon shooting off for goodness sakes.

swellman
09-01-2012, 12:44 AM
Delay of treatment.

It can be reasonably argued that a delay of treatment when low for at T1D could result in death. It can also be argued that a delay of treatment when high, over time (and it could be reasonably argued that this "child with a needle phobia" could follow the T1D over the course of education) could result in irreversible physiological damage.

It can be reasonably argued that these real risks (and I would use the word "risks") outweigh any perceived psychological discomfort on the part of the "child with needle phobia".

Real risks outweighs possible risk of mental discomfort.

Delay of treatment is your trump card.

IMO.

MommaKat
09-01-2012, 01:43 AM
Everything Swellman said, plus the caveat that testing at her desk minimizes time lost from class - one of the primary purposes of having a 504 plan in addition to the health plan.

The needle phobic child is not missing time from class due to his / her phobia, and other steps (outside of putting your child's life at risk by delaying treatment) must be undertaken to accommodate that child. They're on a very slippery slope. If you have the summary you provided here, forward that on to both ADA and OCR. If not, request that they submit that in writing to you.

I ran into this last year. The AP in my daughter's middle school tried very hard to mandate that dd test in the hall if she felt low or high, rather than at her desk. Our ADA advocate was brilliant in verbally demonstrating the legal culpability they faced in delaying treatment by trying to mandate testing anywhere but her desk. The accommodation for needle phobic students who became aware of my daughter testing was that 1) preferential seating for my daughter near the door for easy access in case of emergency, 2) needle phobic children preferentially seated on other side of the room, 3) if in a group work setting they could a) move to another area of the room in the even she needed to test, or b) they were allowed to self advocate and leave the room for a maximum of 2 minutes. Guess what? No child ever moved or left the room; in fact, most kids weren't aware she was testing or had done so until she went to grab juice or fast acting glucose from her snack bin in a class.

Good luck with this. School admins that pull this stuff make my blood boil!

swellman
09-01-2012, 02:27 AM
Ok, now I have to ask. Are there REALLY needle phobic students or is this a ploy by massively ignorant parents to move testing outside of the classroom? I thought it a ruse but now with two people saying it happens I'm really, really ... skeptical.

Talk about keeping Michael Sisco out of the swimming pool .....

MommaKat
09-01-2012, 02:44 AM
I thought it a ruse but now with two people saying it happens I'm really, really ... skeptical.


I don't know about the OP, but the ADA advocate and I both walked away convinced it was a ruse the school admin tried to pull. I think once they were called out by the advocate, they had to pretend they needed accommodations for both sets of kids. Whatever, they deserved the extra work if that was the case!!

Lisa - Aidan's mom
09-01-2012, 07:04 AM
Good luck trying to resolve this ridiculous situation; so sorry for the stress!

Flutterby
09-01-2012, 07:16 AM
Ok, now I have to ask. Are there REALLY needle phobic students or is this a ploy by massively ignorant parents to move testing outside of the classroom? I thought it a ruse but now with two people saying it happens I'm really, really ... skeptical.

Talk about keeping Michael Sisco out of the swimming pool .....

I'm not sure about the kids that the OP is having issues with... I think its just an excuse the school is using. But for the sake of the schools arguement you can't just assume they are making it up, you have to assume there is a kid that has an IEP/504 for this needle phobia, the 'clicking' noise since you never SEE the needle, I bet this kid doesn't even KNOW whats going on... there is no way to prove that this kid doesn't exist because of the privacy laws. So we have to assume it does...

I agree with you, Delay of treatment is the biggest issue. Everything that I have found about testing IN the classroom delay of treatment and missing less instruction time are they key reasons.

DsMom
09-01-2012, 08:24 AM
I don't believe I could request that on another kid...but I agree with you sounds like a red herring to me on the needle phobic kid.

So, here's a shortened, summarized reply

Can self-test. The only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well.

They will create an Independent Health Plan for XXX without medical records. However, the only information they say they would have requested would be related to my child's current diabetic status, not her entire medical record. The only person who would have seen those records would have been the nurse.

So, does this mean sometimes they will not let my kid test in class????? What?? How should I proceed at our next meeting???

So...is there an ACTUAL needle phobic child in your child's classroom this year? As others have stated, the solution to this is so darn easy...just have that needle phobic kid leave the room for the 30 seconds or less that it takes your child to test. Or s/he could wear earbuds and listen to music for that time while s/he looks the other way. I'm sorry, but I just can't feel too much sympathy for this alleged child in the face of a real medical condition. And this is from someone who spent my own childhood very sensitive to blood...I would often get very faint, and actually once got up from a chair in the hospital after having had blood taken in a dizzy haze, not knowing what I was doing, walked down the corridor and out the door into an ambulance entrance. My mom was running behind me and caught me before I could get run over! This is a minor thing that many people experience.

As for your child's current "diabetic status":rolleyes:, all they need to know is that she is diabetic...that is her status. The school nurse is not there to do the things that the endo does...she is not there to improve A1c or suggest management changes, so why would she possibly need to know anything about "status?" She is there to do the things you tell her to do related to your child's diabetes, period. And, the school is not the one who is supposed to be creating this Health Care Plan anyway...it is you, with your endo's advice or suggestions, who really create the plan. The school just needs to implement it.

Sarah Maddie's Mom
09-01-2012, 08:56 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

selketine
09-01-2012, 09:35 AM
My older son has a needle phobia - so it DOES exist. However he has no problem being around William when he tests, etc. He just doesn't want the needles applied to him (and he does not have needle phobia accommodations in school). I could elaborate on this entire issue but this board is accessible to anyone on the internet so I won't. I'm just disappointed to see so many posts that are so dismissive of this issue altogether as ridiculous. I think what is ridiculous is how the school is using that issue to not allow your child to test in the classroom - now THAT is the part we should be focused on.

That aside, I agree that the school could be putting this up as an example for an issue that doesn't actually exist AT THE MOMENT in your child's classroom. I think you have the right to ask if there is actually someone with a 504 or IEP with accommodations for this issue in your child's classes. I don't know how old your child is but if this is middle or high school they should be able to separate them (guessing it is one or two) because so many sections of the same class are offered.

The post below by MommaKat is perfect - if there actually ARE children in your child's class with a 504 or IEP for this issue - they have to accommodate both without putting undue burden on either. If the school won't figure it out to your satisfaction asap - I would get OCR involved and let them figure it out.


The accommodation for needle phobic students who became aware of my daughter testing was that 1) preferential seating for my daughter near the door for easy access in case of emergency, 2) needle phobic children preferentially seated on other side of the room, 3) if in a group work setting they could a) move to another area of the room in the even she needed to test, or b) they were allowed to self advocate and leave the room for a maximum of 2 minutes. Guess what? No child ever moved or left the room; in fact, most kids weren't aware she was testing or had done so until she went to grab juice or fast acting glucose from her snack bin in a class.

CAGrandma
09-01-2012, 09:44 AM
Although the child with the needle phobia may not exist, you have to proceed as if s/he does. You don't need to know who the kid is (privacy) but exactly what does his 504 require as an accommodation for his disability? Does it focus on something like excusing him from health classes where visuals of medical procedures may be displayed (like venous blood draws)? He doesn't participate in group immunizations? He doesn't have those immunizations that require injections? Does it say that he can't be within 10 feet of someone doing a finger prick?

And definitely put things in writing!

Sarah Maddie's Mom
09-01-2012, 09:55 AM
Apply this notion to, say, a child who uses a wheelchair or has a prosthetic leg.
The child in the chair/with the leg is in a classroom with a child who is wheel chair phobic or afraid of the prosthetic leg. Would the school require the child in the chair/with the leg to leave the chair/leg in the hallway? or to drape the chair/leg with a table cloth to protect the sensitivities of the chair/leg phobic?:rolleyes:

When "needle phobia" or "wheelchair/prosthetic leg phobia" are recognized by section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities act then we'll talk. Till then, it's just a ruse to discourage testing in the classroom.

thebestnest5
09-01-2012, 11:18 AM
Apply this notion to, say, a child who uses a wheelchair or has a prosthetic leg.
The child in the chair/with the leg is in a classroom with a child who is wheel chair phobic or afraid of the prosthetic leg. Would the school require the child in the chair/with the leg to leave the chair/leg in the hallway? or to drape the chair/leg with a table cloth to protect the sensitivities of the chair/leg phobic?:rolleyes:

When "needle phobia" or "wheelchair/prosthetic leg phobia" are recognized by section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities act then we'll talk. Till then, it's just a ruse to discourage testing in the classroom.

Thank you, that is what I feel. And, the school did back peddle from needle phobia to The "only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well."

And, this is after all the other excuses that they wouldn't let her test in class...when I refuted those reasons with documentation of safety of testiing in classroom, importance of not losing classroom instruction time, etc...then and only then did this come about...and needle phobia changed to "sensitive to medical procedure".

nanhsot
09-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Thank you, that is what I feel. And, the school did back peddle from needle phobia to The "only issue is if another student has an IEP or Independent Health Plan that states they cannot be exposed to medical procedures or blood. Unfortunately, some children are so sensitive to this (for various reasons) that they get sick or pass out at seeing medical things occur (like immunizations, etc.) We have to be respectful of those plans as well."

And, this is after all the other excuses that they wouldn't let her test in class...when I refuted those reasons with documentation of safety of testiing in classroom, importance of not losing classroom instruction time, etc...then and only then did this come about...and needle phobia changed to "sensitive to medical procedure".

I haven't been following this thread as I do not have a child in school so have no experience with all this but read a bit today and find this all so odd.

Why is the responsibility on YOUR child to leave? Why can't the other child step away...or just not look?? If child with phobia is in front of the classroom and child with T1 is a few seats back, discretely testing, how on earth would phobia child even know?

I'm sorry but this sounds like a stonewall to me, to keep your child from testing in the classroom. I find this so infuriating.

Jason's mom
09-01-2012, 11:41 AM
We've had ard meetings, IEP's, accommodations, etc. since J started school at 3 because he has Down syndrome. Over the past 16 years of these meetings, we've had plenty of opportunities to go through ridiculous discussions with school officials. My best suggestion is this... I would completely quit even discussing the "other children". Although you care about everyone's welfare, you have to take the stance that you're only responsible for your child. As long as the discussion continues to include other kids/issues, they can continue to detract from the real issue. Although we can all think of a hundred different ways to accommodate the other child and even wonder if, in fact, that child is in the same classroom, it really has nothing to do with your situation.

Focus on the medical reasons why they have to accommodate your child. Anything else is not your issue - it's theirs. And they are the ones who have to figure it out.

selketine
09-01-2012, 12:14 PM
Focus on the medical reasons why they have to accommodate your child. Anything else is not your issue - it's theirs. And they are the ones who have to figure it out.

I also agree with this - it is up to the school to figure out how to make everyone's accommodations work - not up to you to figure out how to accommodate your child's needs with other's child's IEP or 504 plans - whether they exist or not - or seem ridiculous to you or not.

If you have attempted to educate them, have shown them applicable state and federal laws and perhaps state or local policies, I'd do as Hawkeye suggests and contact OCR - and the ADA - go from there.

GaPeach
09-01-2012, 03:15 PM
Let's use the same logic back at them - if a student has a phobia of academic tests, can the whole class accommodate him by not taking any tests. :rolleyes:

At our school, there is a child that is terrified of Fire Drills because his own home burnt down once, :( so should all the other students forgo safety due to his fear.

Gee whiz, tell the school to quit making excuses and insure that your child can take care of his medical needs.

caspi
09-01-2012, 05:00 PM
Let's use the same logic back at them - if a student has a phobia of academic tests, can the whole class accommodate him by not taking any tests. :rolleyes:

At our school, there is a child that is terrified of Fire Drills because his own home burnt down once, :( so should all the other students forgo safety due to his fear.

Gee whiz, tell the school to quit making excuses and insure that your child can take care of his medical needs.

Well said. And if a child has an actual phobia, I certainly hope the parents are getting that child help and not just expecting the world to change and revolve around their child.

MorgansMom247
09-01-2012, 06:49 PM
This is the first time I have posted. Just reading how the school is so disrespectful of this child worries me in my efforts to get my son back to school. He was just diagnosed with type 1 week. The first thing his school did was ask for a release of medical information. This was after his principal told us we did not have to go to that school. I am seriously worried about my son returning to school. Seeing how people react to a child with insulin dependents Vs fear of a needle is not promising. What about my child? My insulin dependent child is fearful of needles and does not have the choice to not face his fears. It is ridiculous that these schools are allowed to discriminate so easy. Including my sons school.

valerie k
09-01-2012, 07:47 PM
NEVER ever give them a medical release. They need to talk to
you about any issues, you can go to the dr if you feel the need.

momof2marchboys
09-01-2012, 08:55 PM
I would think that the school would be thrilled that you are wanting your child to test on their own in the classroom.
I personally feel it is a distraction to the classroom when my son leaves the room with the school secretary each time he tests. He is only 6 and in K and our school nurse is not there everyday all day so the school secretary handles his diabetes care. I have been in the school when she goes to get him and it is disruption to the class when he comes and goes, kids get side tracked easily.
I am waiting for the day he can check on his own in the classroom and just go on with his day.

hawkeyegirl
09-01-2012, 09:05 PM
There is no child with a 504 for a needle phobia in one of your daughter's classes. Are you supposed to believe that another kid's parents forsaw the possibility that their kid might have a T1 kid in their classrom who would want to test in the classroom (despite this school never allowing that before), and that this school, which is giving you all sorts of grief about normal, reasonable accommodations, agreed with those parents that a needle phobia is a DISABILITY as defined by section 504 and gave that child an accommodation saying that they wouldn't expose that child to needles in the classroom?! I mean, come on. What a pile of horseshit.

In your shoes, I'd call their bluff. I'd tell them that for every classroom where there is a child with a 504 for a needle phobia, your daughter will go out in the hall to test. Oh, and you want to see the redacted 504s for all of those kids, along with the letter(s) from the doctor(s) (also redacted) confirming the "disability."

I just re-read your latest post. I think they are allowing her to test in the classroom, and trying to save face with their "but if we get a kid with a needle phobia..." BS.

With respect to your daughter's medical history, tell them your endo will give them a standard DMMP.

Flutterby
09-02-2012, 09:10 AM
Even if the other child DID have a 504 or an IEP one can not trump the other. They need to figure out how to accomidate BOTH 504s, IF the other 504 exsists. Even if the other child doesn't have a 504 (assuming this issue is real), why is it so difficult for them to send him down the hall for a drink at the water fountain?

Sarah Maddie's Mom
09-02-2012, 09:23 AM
The determination of whether a student has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity must be made on the basis of an individual inquiry. The Section 504 regulatory provision at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(i) defines a physical or mental impairment as any physiological disorder or condition, cosmetic disfigurement, or anatomical loss affecting one or more of the following body systems: neurological; musculoskeletal; special sense organs; respiratory, including speech organs; cardiovascular; reproductive; digestive; genito-urinary; hemic and lymphatic; skin; and endocrine; or any mental or psychological disorder, such as mental retardation, organic brain syndrome, emotional or mental illness, and specific learning disabilities. The regulatory provision does not set forth an exhaustive list of specific diseases and conditions that may constitute physical or mental impairments because of the difficulty of ensuring the comprehensiveness of such a list.

Major life activities, as defined in the Section 504 regulations at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(ii), include functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working. This list is not exhaustive. Other functions can be major life activities for purposes of Section 504. In the Amendments Act (see FAQ 1), Congress provided additional examples of general activities that are major life activities, including eating, sleeping, standing, lifting, bending, reading, concentrating, thinking, and communicating. Congress also provided a non-exhaustive list of examples of ?major bodily functions? that are major life activities, such as the functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions. The Section 504 regulatory provision, though not as comprehensive as the Amendments Act, is still valid ? the Section 504 regulatory provision?s list of examples of major life activities is not exclusive, and an activity or function not specifically listed in the Section 504 regulatory provision can nonetheless be a major life activity.



The is no 504 accommodations for "needle phobia". None.

misscaitp
09-02-2012, 10:01 AM
Under the working assumption that there is a child with a needle phobia (which can fall under a 504 if say its connected to OCD or PTSD) you can't exactly ask the student to leave the room as it takes away from their instructional time. Now the same with your daughter in this case it could be argued that she would be missing instructional time by asking her to leave for 10 minutes each test.

I think the only way the school is going to even think reasonably is if you file a complaint about FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education). You could say that by expecting your daughter to leave class for 10 minutes (3 test a day=30 minutes)for 5 second blood test leads to 5,400 minutes of lost instruction over the course of a school year. Allowing her to not fully access the curriculum in comparison to her non-disabled peers, thus being in violation of the American with Disabilities Act and The Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

Now what I don't understand is that the school hasn't offered to give her a private corale desk within the classroom to go to when needing to test? This provides both privacy for your child and a "buffer" for the needle phobic student to not see blood. In this situation neither student would lose instruction time.

Dan
09-02-2012, 10:46 AM
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I think your school is way out of line here. Just ask them to move your kid to another room. I doubt that two people have this alleged phobia.

virgo39
09-02-2012, 12:56 PM
This is the first time I have posted. Just reading how the school is so disrespectful of this child worries me in my efforts to get my son back to school. He was just diagnosed with type 1 week. The first thing his school did was ask for a release of medical information. This was after his principal told us we did not have to go to that school. I am seriously worried about my son returning to school. Seeing how people react to a child with insulin dependents Vs fear of a needle is not promising. What about my child? My insulin dependent child is fearful of needles and does not have the choice to not face his fears. It is ridiculous that these schools are allowed to discriminate so easy. Including my sons school.

Don't want to derail the thread, but wanted to say that I'm sorry about your DS's dx. While threads like these are obviously upsetting, many schools handle a child with T1 appropriately. Arm yourself with information about your child's rights and the school policies and procedures. Also, be sure that you and the administration are speaking the same language -- I've found school personnel to sometimes use terminology that is a bit imprecise and confusing -- particularly when it comes to "releases". You should not have to give the school access to your child's medical records, but there might be some paperwork that must be signed authorizing the school to administer insulin, etc. to your child.

thebestnest5
09-02-2012, 01:08 PM
Update: After speaking with two reasonable, caring school officials over this weekend, I believe we will be able to have the reasonable accommodations that we have had at other schools. I will update more when I know more. This has been difficult and the ADA has not contacted me (likely with the holiday) yet.

Thank you all for your support, it has helped more than you know. My daughter read some of the posts and I know it validated her feelings. The saddest part for me is how this makes my kid feel--testing her bg is a normal part of her life and something she needs to do to be safe and healthy. It hurt her to have a school undermine her needs.

ozarkmom
09-03-2012, 08:45 AM
Am I the only parent that would go into a meeting with these people clicking a poker????:D reset, click, reset, click, reset, click, reset, click and repeat!

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

ozarkmom
09-03-2012, 09:25 AM
The saddest part for me is how this makes my kid feel--testing her bg is a normal part of her life and something she needs to do to be safe and healthy. It hurt her to have a school undermine her needs.

That's what I didn't like. They put the other child's needs above your daughter's.

I'm on the same side as a previous post--this isn't your problem, it's the school's problem-they need to find a solution to accommodate all involved.

funnygrl
09-03-2012, 10:33 AM
So is this needle phobic classmate excused from home ec so she won't need to see a sewing needle? Needles are a part of life. They're needed to give IV medications, vaccines, and draw blood. The sooner someone gets over needlephobia the better. And want to know what the best treatment for a phobia is? Exposure therapy. So it would actually be helpful to this child for your child to test in class.

Needing access to his medical records in ridiculous. When I had a 504 they just needed a note from my doctor with my diagnosis. That was it.

sisterbeth43
09-04-2012, 03:01 PM
I know needle phobia does exist. My SIL often passes out at the sight of a needle--either him being given an injection or someone else. But he has never once complained of me testing or bolusing in front of him. I think that most people with needle phobia are only upset when the needle is for them, but not always. But the real issue here is that the school cannot discriminate against your child because someone else might have a needle phobia. One of Reann's teachers did not want her to test in the classroom because, despite having 7 children, she got sick at the sight of blood. She told me when the year was over, she never once saw Reann check her bg in her classroom, I assured her, that she had indeed checked in that classroom, but was very discreet about it. As a previous poster said, If a child holds her/his hand in their lap, then no one need see it at all. The school is just trying to pull a fast one over on you.

pianoplayer4
09-04-2012, 04:04 PM
Okay, so I asked my mom (who was severely needle phobic until she was married, she passed out EVERY TIME she had a shot/ got blood drawn until she was married, and still hates the smell of rubbing alcohol)

She said that it should be fine if you had the kid sit far enough away, and in and ideal world, having the kid test his/her own bg with the poker would be awesome because one good experience could help him/her conquer their fears.

Also she said you have to understand that when your needle phobic, you really are afraid that you'll be attacked with needles.... so it's a tough thing to deal with.

hawkeyegirl
09-04-2012, 04:14 PM
There is no needle phobic child. The OP is getting her accommodations.

Sarah Maddie's Mom
09-04-2012, 05:14 PM
There is no needle phobic child. The OP is getting her accommodations.

And personally, I find all this theoretical accommodating of this phantom kid really demeaning of actual kids with actual disabilities (like, you know, ours) and their actual right to protection under section 504.

MomofSweetOne
09-04-2012, 10:04 PM
I had a friend in high school who would faint from just conversations about blood. It wasn't fun for her at all; at times it caused her to lose bladder control. I try to teach my daughter to be sensitive to those who may be around her while also testing where she needs to be.

Mrs Puff
09-04-2012, 10:06 PM
I don't really have anything to add other than ironically, my diabetic child who gives himself shots all day long, passes out when he has his blood drawn! He does not like the big needle and the fact that it is going into a vein.

C6H12O6
09-04-2012, 10:14 PM
I had a friend in high school who would faint from just conversations about blood. It wasn't fun for her at all; at times it caused her to lose bladder control. I try to teach my daughter to be sensitive to those who may be around her while also testing where she needs to be.

how did she deal with menstruation ?

Bigbluefrog
09-05-2012, 05:49 PM
The determination of whether a student has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity must be made on the basis of an individual inquiry. The Section 504 regulatory provision at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(i) defines a physical or mental impairment as any physiological disorder or condition, cosmetic disfigurement, or anatomical loss affecting one or more of the following body systems: neurological; musculoskeletal; special sense organs; respiratory, including speech organs; cardiovascular; reproductive; digestive; genito-urinary; hemic and lymphatic; skin; and endocrine; or any mental or psychological disorder, such as mental retardation, organic brain syndrome, emotional or mental illness, and specific learning disabilities. The regulatory provision does not set forth an exhaustive list of specific diseases and conditions that may constitute physical or mental impairments because of the difficulty of ensuring the comprehensiveness of such a list.

Major life activities, as defined in the Section 504 regulations at 34 C.F.R. 104.3(j)(2)(ii), include functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working. This list is not exhaustive. Other functions can be major life activities for purposes of Section 504. In the Amendments Act (see FAQ 1), Congress provided additional examples of general activities that are major life activities, including eating, sleeping, standing, lifting, bending, reading, concentrating, thinking, and communicating. Congress also provided a non-exhaustive list of examples of ?major bodily functions? that are major life activities, such as the functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions. The Section 504 regulatory provision, though not as comprehensive as the Amendments Act, is still valid ? the Section 504 regulatory provision?s list of examples of major life activities is not exclusive, and an activity or function not specifically listed in the Section 504 regulatory provision can nonetheless be a major life activity.



The is no 504 accommodations for "needle phobia". None.

Good point! Obviously the school administration is being difficult. What is the real reason they are against your child testing in the class room? Because I don't buy into the needle phobia kid. Are they concerned about blood born pathogens? Over used needles and lancets and proper disposal. Maybe they need an education in the matter.

I would call ADA for help in this matter.

My daughter always tested in the class room or anywhere needed. WE also supplied a biohazard sharps container and kept it under the sink in the classroom.

deafmack
09-11-2012, 06:26 AM
They can accommodate the needle-phobic kid (who I suspect does not exist) by having HER leave the room when your child needs to test. :rolleyes:

The multiclix doesn't make that much noise and if a child doesn't know what they are hearing then they shouldn't be scared. It seems the school is just tryng to justify their actions or policy. Definitely get ADA involved. To tell a kid that they can't test in the classroom because a child may or may not have needle phobia is just plain weird. Also the sound of the click may mean anything. And it isn't like the child with diabetes is going to stand up and announce that they are not going to test their blood sugar.
The school is just trying to get out of providing accommodations it seems.

Lynnieg123
09-13-2012, 03:07 PM
Sorry you have to deal with this situation. It is total crap and an excuse for something else they aren't telling you. I am actually irrationally upset at that school and want to call and yell at them. :D