Letter from D camp - YIKES!

[KatieJane'smom]

I just got a short letter from my daughter from D camp...and I quote "Oh, Guess what? Last night, I was 46. In the middle of the night I was 52. This morning I was 44. In the middle of 2nd period I was 46. At the beginning of 3rd period I was 43 and at the end of 3rd I was 55! I've been low a lot! Well, Got 2 Go, Love, Katie Jane"

What are they thinking??? These are doctors & med students. I called the med staff to ask why all the lows & Mrs. Giggly looked at her chart & told me she was running higher than she had been. "She's fine now because she's running in the 50's. Before that she had been in the 30's" "Isn't that still too low?" "Oh, well, I guess it's a little low." "Are you aware that when you short her carbs at dinner because you are serving cupcakes later on that she is not eating that cupcake/cookie whatever because she's allergic to eggs?" "Oh, yes, of course, We always give her a substitute snack. I was with her the other day when she couldn't eat the cookies so I gave her a 15 carb snack of 3 glucose tabs."
Are you kidding me??? Since when are glucose tabs a substitute for a complex carb snack?

I'm just freaking out a little bit here. Am I over-reacting?

[Seans Mom]

If that's overreacting then I'd be overreacting too. Geeesh !!!! :eek::eek:

[Abby-Dabby-Doo]

I'd be freaking out!

You need to get on the horn and someone needs to make some changes!

[Twinklet]

What a freaking dimwit you spoke with on the phone. I'd be really angry. Glucose tabs are not a substitute for a snack!!

I'd consider going down there and yanking her out. All those middle-of-the-night lows are way too scary.

[LJS118]

You are NOT overreacting at all!! They are crazy. I would go and bring her home. She's low, not a little low. Sorry to sound harsh, but I really don;t think they know what they're doing and I'd go bring her home.

[moco89]

If she's going to Camp Sweeney, that's typical!!!! Considering that everyone is closely monitored, and that everyone gets tested a minimum of 2x in the middle of the night, she should be fine. They always do a great job taking care of everyone, but sometimes the activity levels-from day to day interfere with the blood sugars/insulin dosing. Like one night, you'll be running around for hours, and then the next night will be movie night. I did have days at Sweeney where I would be low ALL DAY. But then I'd get COJ (cup of juice) and that was exciting. LOL

But yeah, whatever med student that's managing her blood sugars (and that particular cabin's doses) this session is a dimwit. The med students never sleep, either....FYI..BTW I never liked medstaff anyways for many different reasons.

If you get on the phone, just ask to talk to the physician on call.

[moco89]

I was with her the other day when she couldn't eat the cookies so I gave her a 15 carb snack of 3 glucose tabs."
Are you kidding me??? Since when are glucose tabs a substitute for a complex carb snack?

I'm just freaking out a little bit here. Am I over-reacting?

They typically substitute snacks with different types of carbs. The Chocolate chip cookies that they give at the dances consist more of simple carbs than complex carbs. Either way, a carb is a carb. The blood sugar in the long run ends up raising to the same score, although a simple carb raises it faster.

[KatieJane'smom]

If she's going to Camp Sweeney, that's typical!!!! Considering that everyone is closely monitored, and that everyone gets tested a minimum of 2x in the middle of the night, she should be fine. They always do a great job taking care of everyone, but sometimes the activity levels-from day to day interfere with the blood sugars/insulin dosing. Like one night, you'll be running around for hours, and then the next night will be movie night. I did have days at Sweeney where I would be low ALL DAY. But then I'd get COJ (cup of juice) and that was exciting. LOL

But yeah, whatever med student that's managing her blood sugars (and that particular cabin's doses) this session is a dimwit. The med students never sleep, either....FYI..

If you get on the phone, just ask to talk to the physician on call.
Thanks, that does make me feel a little better. I didn't want to be that mom that called camp all the time but she never runs that low. I understand it's more activity but she also increased her calories/carbs & lowered both insulins & she's still low.

I didn't know you could ask to speak to one of the docs so I just asked for the med staff in charge of her. Now I know.

I hate to be tacky but the first thing that crossed my mind was - no wonder all the kids have lower A1C's after camp if they are running them all this low all the time!

Thanks for making me feel better & not just crazy!

[Sarah Maddie's Mom]

Gee, silly me, imagine that I thought the WHOLE POINT of D camp was to ensure that things like activity lows, meal bolus' would actually be UNDERSTOOD and managed??!! You are so not overacting! I don't want to worry you any more than you already are but I would be on the phone tomorrow morning with the camp director and insist on a full review of her care, and sorry to say, probably wouldn't sleep too well tonight. :(

[moco89]

Thanks, that does make me feel a little better. I didn't want to be that mom that called camp all the time but she never runs that low. I understand it's more activity but she also increased her calories/carbs & lowered both insulins & she's still low.

I didn't know you could ask to speak to one of the docs so I just asked for the med staff in charge of her. Now I know.

I hate to be tacky but the first thing that crossed my mind was - no wonder all the kids have lower A1C's after camp if they are running them all this low all the time!

Thanks for making me feel better & not just crazy!

Yeah, I spent ten summers there :D. Also, calling at mealtimes works best. I wouldn't bother calling at any other time, actually. It is a great camp, even though things get crazy (F-U-N to the M-A-X? LOL). Although she may be ending up low A LOT, they always take care of the kids well..No matter what. I would talk to her big sis, too.

If you have any questions, just ask!

[Shannon's Mom]

DD went to D camp 2 years ago. She said she was too homesick and won't go again (but that's not the point of this post!) I wanted her to go to have fun and meet other kids, but ALSO, I thought it would be one week where I would get a break. If I saw lows all week I'd be stressing a little.....

[KatieJane'smom]

It's for 3 weeks & I'm sure it took a couple of days for the letter to get here:eek:

[LJS118]

It's for 3 weeks & I'm sure it took a couple of days for the letter to get here:eek:

I'd really be freaking out..

[moco89]

Gee, silly me, imagine that I thought the WHOLE POINT of D camp was to ensure that things like activity lows, meal bolus' would actually be UNDERSTOOD are managed??!! You are so not overacting! I don't want to worry you any more than you already are but I would be on the phone tomorrow morning with the camp director and insist on a full review of her care, and sorry to say, probably wouldn't sleep too well tonight. :(

Actually, every pre-mealtime blood sugar, lows and highs, and night time blood sugars are recorded and are entered in to the computer. Also, around camp there are testing stations next to the activity areas, where campers can test and treat at any time. The scores are entered in to a touchscreen computer, and are then sent thru the server. At that point, it is sent wirelessly to the camp hospital (where medstaff lives), so that medstaff gets an immediate update on the camper's medical progress, prior to making the next insulin dose. Every carb is counted at Sweeney-for dosing (and is entered in to the computer, too), so that everything is accounted for. You actually have to ask the counselor at your table to leave, because the counselors have to check that you ate all of the carbs on your meal tray-to prevent lows altogether. Also, prior insulin records are entered on the spreadsheet, readily available fto medstaff.

I think you just have a bad medstaffer. In the past, I've had GREAT ones, and some bad ones. You can also ask them to fax her blood sugar records asap, so you get the full story. Also, at the end of the session, upon check-out, you receive this spreadsheet. Oh yeah-I forgot, it also includes daily weight, temperature, and morning ketones in addition to the BGs, carbs ate, and insulin doses.

Oh, BTW-Medstaff could just change my Breakfast dose by adding .5 units to fix recurring highs (going from 3 to 3.5 for example-w/ a 60 carb meal), and I would end up being low all morning. It's probably the activity that's making everything so difficult. There, you basically run around ALL DAY.

Also, it takes about a week for the camper's body to adjust to the activity levels, and so the first week is erratic. After the first week, medstaff will have consistent records to find the right dose. The first week tends to be rough, in terms of blood sugars. After that, it's almost always great.

[Mama2H]

OMG, I would lose it. Hailey leaves for camp 4th of July weekend and this post really really really makes me nervous. I have been in charge of her D since day one and if someone would allow her to run that low all day without AT LEAST suspending her pump and getting her back in range I would be LIVID! I don't know how I am going to leave her there...

I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go I have to let go

[Sarah Maddie's Mom]

I think you just have a bad medstaffer. In the past, I've had GREAT ones, and some bad ones.[

Moco, how recently did you attend this camp?

[moco89]

Moco, how recently did you attend this camp?

Last summer, 2007. I'm 19 now and that was my last summer. I spent ten summers there. As a kid, it was my fav place in the world.

[MamaC]

If my kid was there and having all those lows, and I had spoken to Ms. Giggly with those same responses, there would be phone calls all over the place. Lows overnight? That many? Not to be an alarmist, but overnight is when my kid seizes and neither time did he even have a pattern of lows. Sorry but fixing lows with glucose tabs isn't fixing the overall problem.

The lows may even out over the course of the 3 weeks as her body adjusts to the different activity levels, excitement, etc., but speaking as one who has witnessed and had to treat a seizure...well, I wouldn't have a whole lot of comfort with what's going on.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

I just got a short letter from my daughter from D camp...and I quote "Oh, Guess what? Last night, I was 46. In the middle of the night I was 52. This morning I was 44. In the middle of 2nd period I was 46. At the beginning of 3rd period I was 43 and at the end of 3rd I was 55! I've been low a lot! Well, Got 2 Go, Love, Katie Jane"

What are they thinking??? These are doctors & med students. I called the med staff to ask why all the lows & Mrs. Giggly looked at her chart & told me she was running higher than she had been. "She's fine now because she's running in the 50's. Before that she had been in the 30's" "Isn't that still too low?" "Oh, well, I guess it's a little low." "Are you aware that when you short her carbs at dinner because you are serving cupcakes later on that she is not eating that cupcake/cookie whatever because she's allergic to eggs?" "Oh, yes, of course, We always give her a substitute snack. I was with her the other day when she couldn't eat the cookies so I gave her a 15 carb snack of 3 glucose tabs."
Are you kidding me??? Since when are glucose tabs a substitute for a complex carb snack?

I'm just freaking out a little bit here. Am I over-reacting?

Okay. Well. First of all... let's all take a deeeeeep breath. (And before I get going, let me say that I'm at least on a page somewhere near yours, because my D child is also 13, and he is also at Camp Sweeney right now. I will probably see you at check-out this morning, even if we don't know who each other are.)

Let's think this through a bit:

We're talking about a camp that has been in operation for over 50 years, and has a tremendously positive reputation. If the staff were being consistently irresponsible and under-educated to the point of endangering diabetic children, you can bet we would have all heard about it, and the place would have been shut down years ago amidst a terrible media frenzy.

They care for about 250 kids per session, three sessions a summer, and have been there for over 50 years. Doing the math, that's over 35,000 campers in the past half-century.

We are talking about one letter from one teenager, and one conversation with one member of the med staff -- who is likely a college student, and could very well have caught your phone call in the middle of a hilariously F-U-N camp moment (yeah, I agree it's corny, but the kids love it). I'm not trying to minimize your concern in any way, but I am saying that we're almost certainly getting an incomplete picture of the situation.

The doctors at Sweeney are top-notch. The head of pediatric endocrinology at Children's Medical Center of Dallas personally conducts many of the staff training sessions. (And he's my son's primary physician, so I can safely say I know from first-hand experience that he's quite good.) I've actually stood in the doorway and listened to a few minutes of one of these training sessions, and I can attest to the fact that they take their responsibility very, very seriously. Dr. Ernie, who also has a wonderful reputation, has poured his entire life into this camp. I don't know him well, but from what I have heard, he would die for those kids.

When Sean first attended Sweeney last summer, he had only been dxd for a few weeks. I was so concerned about letting him go to camp that our entire family drove up there and spent an entire afternoon with the head counselor, having him personally soothe all our fears. By the end of the day, I was very impressed with the entire operation. That place runs like a Swiss watch. It has to. They care for over 250 diabetic kids at any given time, each unique in his/her own treatment plan, meal plan, food allergies, activity level, and general health. And yet, somehow, they manage to keep track of each and every child in remarkable detail, and they've done it for 50+ years with a sterling reputation.

Has your daughter been running low? Clearly. Is there a good reason for it? Yes! It's blazing hot out there, those kids play HARD from dawn to midnight (I get tired just watching their podcasts), and they spend so much time in the water that I barely recongnized my tan little berry with the sun-bleached hair when I picked him up last year.

Is she in danger? I sincerely, sincerely doubt it.

Your daugher mentioned lows, but have you seen her complete chart? Do you know what she was doing that precipitated these lows? I know that my 13yo kid rarely (okay, NEVER -- he's 13) sees the big picture, and would never manage to get it into an unbiased, accurate record in a quick note home from camp.

I'm not saying that there is no possibility of a problem here. But before we start a riot, let's bypass the happy med student and talk to one of the doctors. I'll bet you get a MUCH more rational and complete picture of the situation.

Are you kidding me??? Since when are glucose tabs a substitute for a complex carb snack?

Um.... in my house, it's a perfectly normal substitution. A cookie is not a complex carb. I've seen an oreo hit my son's bloodstream faster than a pixie stik. So if this med student made a mistake, it's one that I myself could have easily made. And I would not have been checking BG levels twice a night and all day long with the tenacity that the Sweeney folks do. My son might have also hit 46 in the night, but at home, I would have never known about it. They know about it at Sweeney because they check those kids all day long and twice every night. They're bound to catch more lows than we see on a daily basis, not even taking the heat and activity levels into consideration. And they know exactly what to do about it.

When my son was in the hospital, they did things with his insulin doses, food intake, and other treatment that they would NOT have me do at home. And they were less concerned with numbers outside the norm than they would want me to be at home. Why? Because they understand what they are doing better than I do. Knowing the staff at Sweeney, I wouldn't be surprised if something similar is going on there. I daresay that lows there are safer because they ALWAYS know where those kids' BG are and why.

Really -- and I sincerely mean this, as a mom very much like yourself -- I believe my son is safer at Sweeney than he is at home. I truly believe that when you talk to the medical staff this morning at check-out, they will do much to set your fears at rest.

And of course, if there is a genuine problem, I apologize for trying to throw water on this blaze. But considering the camp's reputation, I'm certainly inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least until I could talk to one of the MD's personally. We've entrusted our children to their care, and they do NOT take that lightly. I really believe everything there is okay.

I'll say it again: I believe my son is safer at Sweeney than he is at home. And I believe it so much that he's going back for a second session on Sunday morning.

Blessings and (((hugs))) to you -- I do understand what it means to fear for a child I so desperately love, and I pray I have not offended anyone too badly.

I hope you will post when you get home and let us know how it went at check-out.

[selketine]

Well...William is just 6 yrs old so it is hard to for me to look at anything like this without sheer panic.:p

William also has a food allergy (peanuts) and I would not want him to get bolused for a cookie then given tabs. Gosh he would hate that! I would hope the tabs were her choice - and that they also had other options for her. Who wants tabs when everyone else gets cookies?:rolleyes:

I think I would ask to speak to someone higher up the food chain there at Camp - the doctor - or the person who supervises the doctors - or someone else. Discuss those numbers with them and see if that helps. I think you need to talk to someone for your own peace of mind.

**I'm editing cause the more I think about her getting tabs cause she couldn't eat the cookies (why'd the heck did they bolus her for the cookies then?) - that really would make me angry. Are they not better equipped to handle her food allergy than that???

[moco89]

Well...William is just 6 yrs old so it is hard to for me to look at anything like this without sheer panic.:p

William also has a food allergy (peanuts) and I would not want him to get bolused for a cookie then given tabs. Gosh he would hate that! I would hope the tabs were her choice - and that they also had other options for her. Who wants tabs when everyone else gets cookies?:rolleyes:

I think I would ask to speak to someone higher up the food chain there at Camp - the doctor - or the person who supervises the doctors - or someone else. Discuss those numbers with them and see if that helps. I think you need to talk to someone for your own peace of mind.

The campers are given cookies when they have a "double active" night. This means that they did two active activities the same night (such as team sports, and then the dance), and in order to prevent lows, a cookie was given. This was not something that was bolused for. It was just an additional 15g snack to keep their blood sugars from going low.

BTW, at Sweeney you eat so much that it's no big deal to have tabs instead of cookies. I personally wouldn't be complaining if I got tabs as a camper! I'm sure the tabs were her choice. They have other stuff too, to accommodate people with food allergies. They also take care of celiac campers very well, too. The medstaff, counselors, and nutrition staff make sure that everything is fine.

[Lee]

Since when are glucose tabs a snack???

I am really surprised - our endo told us and other camp attendees have told us that Camp Sunshine actually runs the kids a little higher - not lower. They like them to be in the 140 -150 range most of the time to avoid serious lows due to anxiety, homesickness ,and increased activity.

[moco89]

Since when are glucose tabs a snack???

I am really surprised - our endo told us and other camp attendees have told us that Camp Sunshine actually runs the kids a little higher - not lower. They like them to be in the 140 -150 range most of the time to avoid serious lows due to anxiety, homesickness ,and increased activity.

Considering it was a 15g simple carb *not complex carb* snack, glucose tabs are fine.

A carb is still a carb, whether it is complex or simple. In the end, they end up causing the blood sugar to raise to the same level (but rise at different rates).

At Sweeney, the kids run around so much (and burn so many calories :)), that the campers get snacks to keep the blood sugars higher, like in the 140-150 range.

[selketine]

The campers are given cookies when they have a "double active" night. This was not something that was bolused for. It was just an additional 15g snack to keep their blood sugars from going low.


It sounded like she was bolused for cookie/cupcake at dinner (overbolused) cause the mom said this:

"Are you aware that when you short her carbs at dinner because you are serving cupcakes later on that she is not eating that cupcake/cookie whatever because she's allergic to eggs?"

I am assuming that "shorting her carbs" means counting the carbs for the cupcake but giving it later?

[Lee]

Considering it was a 15g simple carb *not complex carb* snack, glucose tabs are fine.

A carb is still a carb, whether it is complex or simple. In the end, they end up causing the blood sugar to raise to the same level (but rise at different rates).

At Sweeney, the kids run around so much (and burn so many calories :)), that the campers get snacks to keep the blood sugars higher, like in the 140-150 range.

Oh - I am not complaining about the carb factors - it is just since when is glucose tabs considered a SNACK - you know - a tied you over till the am type of fill me up I am eating something yummy snack?

[moco89]

Oh - I am not complaining about the carb factors - it is just since when is glucose tabs considered a SNACK - you know - a tied you over till the am type of fill me up I am eating something yummy snack?

Well, I personally got tired of eating at camp, so I mean glucose tablets are not bad-especially when you have to eat something in order to keep your blood sugar up. If her daughter had a problem with it, she would of asked for something else. Also, with D, the word snack is not always associated with the tummy. A snack for a person w/ D involves eating 15 g here and there to bring the blood sugar up. The snacks do not have to be satisfying for the stomach, but it does make it nicer for the person w/ D. I think the snack issue is really no big deal at all.

[moco89]

It sounded like she was bolused for cookie/cupcake at dinner (overbolused) cause the mom said this:

"Are you aware that when you short her carbs at dinner because you are serving cupcakes later on that she is not eating that cupcake/cookie whatever because she's allergic to eggs?"

I am assuming that "shorting her carbs" means counting the carbs for the cupcake but giving it later?

Yes, pretty much right after dinner she gets the cupcake. There's one night where they are given a cupcake. The girl did receive another source of carbs in lieu of the cupcake, but there was no over-bolus. This was planned way in advance by the camp, in a way that would of not caused the whole camp's blood sugars to go low.

[mph]

You are NOT overreacting at all!! They are crazy. I would go and bring her home. She's low, not a little low. Sorry to sound harsh, but I really don;t think they know what they're doing and I'd go bring her home.

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

No way would I allow that kind of care for my child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moco89]

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

No way would I allow that kind of care for my child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, it's not like you haven't had your share of bad diabetes days, where your child is high or low all day, even if you're dosing/treating them correctly. I personally think that too many of you are overreacting or being too protective. You guys have never even been to this camp before, so you really wouldn't fully grasp the situation.

This is a D camp, where they educate you about your diabetes (during medical lecture) and where you meet people with D your age. If there was something serious going wrong, my parents wouldn't had sent me there for TEN summers. You are taken care of well at Sweeney.....very well. Although the letter may be concerning, this could be easily resolved by a little chat. It's not like blood sugar problems NEVER happen at your home. Everything does get closely monitored at this camp. I've been to other camps, and this camp is superior to any camp I've ever been to-even non-D camps.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

Well, I personally got tired of eating at camp, so I mean glucose tablets are not bad-especially when you have to eat something in order to keep your blood sugar up. If her daughter had a problem with it, she would of asked for something else. Also, with D, the word snack is not always associated with the tummy. A snack for a person w/ D involves eating 15 g here and there to bring the blood sugar up. The snacks do not have to be satisfying for the stomach, but it does make it nicer for the person w/ D. I think the snack issue is really no big deal at all.

Yep. My son (who just got home and had an absolutely blast at camp) said something to me that I'd never heard come out of his mouth: "I got so much to eat that I stayed full." This is my 5'10" beanpole who has grown 6" in the last year and burns calories like they were going out of style. He's ALWAYS hungry. He's NEVER full. But on his 3500/cal/day meal plan (he got to pick how much he wanted), he was satisfied. A few tabs every now and then were probably a welcome relief.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

It sounded like she was bolused for cookie/cupcake at dinner (overbolused)

The Sweeney kids are on constant carb diets. They are given a precise number of carbs at each meal, and they have to either eat everything on the plate, or exchange things they don't want for alternative items. Carbs are not left uneaten and unaccounted for. So they don't get overbolused.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

the more I think about her getting tabs cause she couldn't eat the cookies (why'd the heck did they bolus her for the cookies then?) - that really would make me angry. Are they not better equipped to handle her food allergy than that???

She may not have WANTED anything else. They give those kids SOOO much food. My son, who is ALWAYS hungry, said he actually had trouble eating all they had available. (This is earth-shattering for him, btw). And they give food choices all the time. No one is being overbolused, here, and no one is being deprived. Really.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

No way would I allow that kind of care for my child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please read some of my posts in this thread. I'm not saying no mistakes are ever made at Camp Sweeney, but I really do not believe any of us are getting the whole story about what happened with this particular girl. They take exceptionally good care of the kids at this camp. :cwds:

Let's not judge or jump to conclusions, especially with incomplete information. Camp Sweeney provides an immeasurable service to diabetic kids. What if this thread is -- unjustly -- scaring away a parent of a newly-dxd child who needs this camp? By making sweeping statements like this without knowing all the facts, we could be doing far more harm than good.

If there really is a problem, fine. But there are far too facts in evidence here to be sure of any such thing. This camp has an excellent reputation from 58 years of service. Let's at least give them the benefit of a doubt. Yes?

[moco89]

She may not have WANTED anything else. They give those kids SOOO much food. My son, who is ALWAYS hungry, said he actually had trouble eating all they had available. (This is earth-shattering for him, btw). And they give food choices all the time. No one is being overbolused, here, and no one is being deprived. Really.

The camp's motto is "Where friendship begins....and never ends" but we used to say that camp is "Where eating begins.....and never ends" LOL

Also, get on to itunes and search for "camp sweeney" and click on their podcast. A lot of the night time activities and this past session's camp video (the awards night podcast) are on there. If you actually watch the videos, you'd be shocked. They're all having a ton of fun. Every single one of them. It's really something

[BrendaK]

moco89, I don't think anyone is denying that Camp Sweeny is a good camp. And it seems like you have a wonderful experience there for 10 years. It does have a great reputation.

However, as the parent of a young child, any letter coming home saying that my child was in the 30-50 range consistantly at camp is unacceptable and cause for a parent to panic!!! Especially with the response the parent got from the medical staff. Remember, parents don't have 10 years of camp experience to fall back on. If it's your child's first year at camp and the first letter that comes home says stuff like that, it doesn't matter what the camps reputation is or what other people's experience is! It's your child!!!

I am very curious to see what the big picture is too!! I hope that the child is able to finish out at camp with safe blood sugars!!

[Momof4gr8kids]

The campers are given cookies when they have a "double active" night. This means that they did two active activities the same night (such as team sports, and then the dance), and in order to prevent lows, a cookie was given. This was not something that was bolused for. It was just an additional 15g snack to keep their blood sugars from going low.

BTW, at Sweeney you eat so much that it's no big deal to have tabs instead of cookies. I personally wouldn't be complaining if I got tabs as a camper! I'm sure the tabs were her choice. They have other stuff too, to accommodate people with food allergies. They also take care of celiac campers very well, too. The medstaff, counselors, and nutrition staff make sure that everything is fine.

I'm sure camp sweeny is a good camp, but they are still prone to mistakes.

I don't think you're really understanding the complaint about the glucose tabs being a sub for a cookie.
15 of glucose tabs wont work the same way as a cookie with 15 g of carbs. Reason is, lack of fat.

Another thing, this forum is here for parents to vent. Should we not vent about something that we are having problems with for fear that we will scare someone? I really don't think so. If there are problems with children with food allergies this needs to be known. These troubles seem to be a lack of proper substitution because of a food allergy, rather then anything else. I feel that all of the putting down of this poster is not good support. You're intitled to support your camp, but I think it would be more proper to start a new thread then to attack the poster that needs to vent.
JMO

[moco89]

You're intitled to support your camp, but I think it would be more proper to start a new thread then to attack the poster that needs to vent.
JMO

I wouldn't dare put down a poster. ;) They are completely entitled to their opinion, and that's non-negotiable. The thing is, some people instantly became outraged about the "lack of care" occuring. I would be upset too if the medstaffer was not being serious towards the parent.

On the part of the original poster, I offered advice, and I think she is probably going to take it. I did not do or say anything to create havoc towards her.

If anything, my passionate feelings towards D camp were directed at the following posters, who assumed the camp was not doing their job/taking responsibility. I would never do anything to offend anyone. I think sending kids to D camp is very important, and this post caused extreme concern around the whole subject of D camp. Keep in mind that the original post did not mention the camp's name.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

[LJS118]

moco89, I don't think anyone is denying that Camp Sweeny is a good camp. And it seems like you have a wonderful experience there for 10 years. It does have a great reputation.

However, as the parent of a young child, any letter coming home saying that my child was in the 30-50 range consistantly at camp is unacceptable and cause for a parent to panic!!! Especially with the response the parent got from the medical staff. Remember, parents don't have 10 years of camp experience to fall back on. If it's your child's first year at camp and the first letter that comes home says stuff like that, it doesn't matter what the camps reputation is or what other people's experience is! It's your child!!!

I am very curious to see what the big picture is too!! I hope that the child is able to finish out at camp with safe blood sugars!!

Very well said...my thoughts exactly. I don't doubt its a good camp either, but its also not safe to have a child Consistently run low with No normal blood sugars in sight. She's lucky she didn't have a seizure or worse. Yes, parents panic but when its your kid you panic! Again, I'm not doubting the reputation the camp has, I'm sure its good, just this situation doesn't sound right.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

I don't think you're really understanding the complaint about the glucose tabs being a sub for a cookie.
15 of glucose tabs wont work the same way as a cookie with 15 g of carbs. Reason is, lack of fat.

They understand that at Sweeney. Really.

I feel that all of the putting down of this poster is not good support. You're intitled to support your camp, but I think it would be more proper to start a new thread then to attack the poster that needs to vent.
JMO

(Speaking gently) I think I can speak for Monica as well as myself when I say that attacking the original poster is the furthest thing from our minds. We are trying to use our first-hand knowledge of the camp to reassure her, as well as anyone else who may be worried by this thread.

Venting is fine, but... when another CWD-er can reply with something that might help set the OP at ease, should we not do that? Should we just let the thread run amok and scare other already-over-stressed parents when we really believe there is a calmer way to look at it that could put their minds at ease? Vent away, but if I have something helpful to add and keep quiet, then ... well ... shame on me, I guess.

As I have really said all I can possibly say, I will withdraw from the conversation at this point. I have only 48 hours to spend with my son before he goes back for another three weeks of F-U-N to the M-A-X :rolleyes:, and I'm going to go enjoy him while I have him.

Yeah, he may go a little low or a little high while he's back there. But he does that at home, too. And I know for a FACT that when it happens at Sweeney, he will come home (safely) understanding what happened and how to deal with situations like it in the future.

That's what camp is all about, really.

[Momof4gr8kids]

They know that at Sweeney. Really.



(Speaking gently) I think I can speak for Monica as well as myself when I say that attacking the original poster is the furthest thing from our minds. We are trying to use our first-hand knowledge of the camp to reassure her, as well as anyone else who may be worried by this thread.

Venting is fine, but... when another CWD-er can reply with something that might help set the OP at ease, should we not do that? Should we just let the thread run amok and scare other already-over-stressed parents when we really believe there is a calmer way to look at it that could put their minds at ease? Vent away, but if I have something helpful to add and keep quiet, then ... well ... shame on me, I guess.

As I have really said all I can possibly say, I will withdraw from the conversation at this point. I have only 48 hours to spend with my son before he goes back for another three weeks of F-U-N to the M-A-X :rolleyes:, and I'm going to go enjoy him while I have him.

Yeah, he may go a little low or a little high while he's back there. But he does that at home, too. And I know for a FACT that when it happens at Sweeney, he will come home (safely) understanding what happened and how to deal with situations like it in the future.

That's what camp is all about, really.

Your arguments sound like they are putting her down.... When you said you thought you weren't hearing the whole story it sounds like you are calling her a liar.... You're not calming anyone down, you're missing the point in order to defend your camp by whatever means. When someone posts about something scary, it's because it is their experience, and while yours may be different, and you can share if you want, but they still have a right to post their DIFFERENT experience. You've basically taken over this thread, and have argued with each person that has supported the OP.

If they knew there is a difference in a cookie and glucose tabs, why are they bolusing for a cookie, or cupcake and giving glucose tabs? The mom isn't talking about a free snack, she is talking about food bolused for. A cupcake, which is worth much more then 15 of glucose tabs.

Also, eating a consistent amount of carbs is an outdated method, and counteractive to the benefit of not having to force so much food on a person, which pumping, or MDI allows for. So my faith that I had in sweeny before is actually dwindling that they might not be cutting edge, and stuck in the middle ages of D care.

I'm not responding to you any longer, because you seem about the drama, and rather then supporting anyone, defending a camp that although might be good most of the time has dropped the ball in this case.

[Sarah Maddie's Mom]

If anything, my passionate feelings towards D camp were directed at the following posters, who assumed the camp was not doing their job/taking responsibility. I would never do anything to offend anyone. I think sending kids to D camp is very important, and this post caused extreme concern around the whole subject of D camp. Keep in mind that the original post did not mention the camp's name.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.


As a parent, I would argue that allowing a camper to hover in the 40s, and 50s IS evidence that someone at the camp isn't doing their job.

And, I believe it was you who named the camp, not the original poster. If you really wanted to protect the reputation of this camp it might have been better to follow her lead an not ID the camp at all.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

Your arguments sound like they are putting her down.... When you said you thought you weren't hearing the whole story it sounds like you are calling her a liar.... You're not calming anyone down, you're missing the point in order to defend your camp by whatever means. When someone posts about something scary, it's because it is their experience, and while yours may be different, and you can share if you want, but they still have a right to post their DIFFERENT experience. You've basically taken over this thread, and have argued with each person that has supported the OP.

If they knew there is a difference in a cookie and glucose tabs, why are they bolusing for a cookie, or cupcake and giving glucose tabs? The mom isn't talking about a free snack, she is talking about food bolused for. A cupcake, which is worth much more then 15 of glucose tabs.

Also, eating a consistent amount of carbs is an outdated method, and counteractive to the benefit of not having to force so much food on a person, which pumping, or MDI allows for. So my faith that I had in sweeny before is actually dwindling that they might not be cutting edge, and stuck in the middle ages of D care.

I'm not responding to you any longer, because you seem about the drama, and rather then supporting anyone, defending a camp that although might be good most of the time has dropped the ball in this case.


I really am very sorry I came across that way. Truly. In reality, I have no interest in drama whatsoever -- I normally avoid this kind of thread for that very reason. People who know me can attest to that -- it's just not me. I'm not a mean or vindictive person. I really do want to help reassure those who are panicking over this situation.

As far as calling anyone a liar... I wouldn't do that even if I were thinking it, which I wasn't. I'm not that kind of person. IRL, I'm pretty nice! I just know that I'm doing well to get two sentences of communication from my 13yo at camp during the whole session because they keep them SO busy. Anything I hear is short, rushed, and not thought through at all. So it's BOUND to be incomplete, no matter how well-meaning he was. It just makes sense. I'm sure NO one is lying here -- I just felt like they were being stirred up and being scared when there probably wasn't any reason to be scared. I don't want anyone to be scared of D camp. I was. I was reassured. I'd like to reassure others. That's all.

If we could meet in person and you could hear the tone of voice I'm thinking in as I type, we would probably have a good laugh over the misunderstanding. I'm a nice person. I really am.

I never intended to attack anyone, and I really did mean to sound reassuring. We all know that tone is notoriously difficult to convey over the internet. I suppose this is a good example.

If I offended (which obviously, I have), I sincerely apologize. I did a poor job of conveying what I really meant.

Blessings,

[moco89]

If you really wanted to protect the reputation of this camp it might have been better to follow her lead an not ID the camp at all.

Thanks. I was a camper there, and I could tell by the daughter's letter which camp in TX it was. I asked about which camp this was, in order to help her out with her dilemma.

[Lee]

Wow - How did this get so heated? ?Why I agree that the camp should be more aggressive in treating lows, the Mom will probably call the Dr and get her questions answered and the reassurance they need.

Since my daughter is going to camp at the end of July, I was watching this thread. I just want to stick up for Moco98 AND for ADHDiabetic Mom. I read all of the posts over again. I personally do not feel that they 'took over' or even this line "I'm not responding to you any longer, because you seem about the drama, and rather then supporting anyone, defending a camp that although might be good most of the time has dropped the ball in this case." seems really harsh and like an undeserved personal attack. If anything, I think ADHDiabetic Mom went above and beyond saying numerous times that she did not want any one to take offense and even adding speaking gently.

Why would you attack someone for what she said? Your arguments sound like they are putting her down.... When you said you thought you weren't hearing the whole story it sounds like you are calling her a liar.... You're not calming anyone down, you're missing the point in order to defend your camp by whatever means. When someone posts about something scary, it's because it is their experience, and while yours may be different, and you can share if you want, but they still have a right to post their DIFFERENT experience. You've basically taken over this thread, and have argued with each person that has supported the OP.

I repeat, I REREAD and REREAD this thread and did not see any of that behavior - if anything, the original poster told MOCO98 THANK YOU - YOU REASSURED ME!

This is a forum where people can vent and get advice, and many times threads take a twist and turn and head down different roads ~ that is hte nature of a forum. Both sides ALWAYS have the right to say what they feel needs to be said.

Some parents said that low is not safe, as a matter of fact ALL parents have said that.

[LJS118]

Kristi just wondering, did you pick your daughter up for the weekend? How is she? Did you speak to anyone in person?

[Seans Mom]

I called the med staff to ask why all the lows & Mrs. Giggly looked at her chart & told me she was running higher than she had been. "She's fine now because she's running in the 50's. Before that she had been in the 30's" "Isn't that still too low?" "Oh, well, I guess it's a little low." "

I'm just freaking out a little bit here. Am I over-reacting?

This is the part that would freak me out. The glucose tabs are not the big problem in my opinion. Running low w/ all the extra activity is expected, BUT the response that she is running higher and is fine now, because she's now running in the 50's............That's what would have me on the road to get my son.!!
Hopefully, once there, someone could intervene and explain to me that he was in the best of hands and that they don't REALLY think running in the 50's is fine.
I'm sure it's a great camp, but that kind of response from someone who's taking care of your child is scary.

[Lee]

This is the part that would freak me out. The glucose tabs are not the big problem in my opinion. Running low w/ all the extra activity is expected, BUT the response that she is running higher and is fine now, because she's now running in the 50's............That's what would have me on the road to get my son.!!
Hopefully, once there, someone could intervene and explain to me that he was in the best of hands and that they don't REALLY think running in the 50's is fine.
I'm sure it's a great camp, but that kind of response from someone who's taking care of your child is scary.

I would love to hear and update about what the Camp Doctor said! So if you talked to him or her, please let us know! All of us waiting for our kids to start camp want to know :eek:

[MamaC]

Yes, please tell us what you learned. My concerns were over the # of lows and the fact that my endo had said a sustained mid-range low (50's and 60's) could cause a seizure almost as much as a LO low can.

[Momof4gr8kids]

Wow - How did this get so heated? ?Why I agree that the camp should be more aggressive in treating lows, the Mom will probably call the Dr and get her questions answered and the reassurance they need.

Since my daughter is going to camp at the end of July, I was watching this thread. I just want to stick up for Moco98 AND for ADHDiabetic Mom. I read all of the posts over again. I personally do not feel that they 'took over' or even this line "I'm not responding to you any longer, because you seem about the drama, and rather then supporting anyone, defending a camp that although might be good most of the time has dropped the ball in this case." seems really harsh and like an undeserved personal attack. If anything, I think ADHDiabetic Mom went above and beyond saying numerous times that she did not want any one to take offense and even adding speaking gently.

Why would you attack someone for what she said?

I repeat, I REREAD and REREAD this thread and did not see any of that behavior - if anything, the original poster told MOCO98 THANK YOU - YOU REASSURED ME!

This is a forum where people can vent and get advice, and many times threads take a twist and turn and head down different roads ~ that is hte nature of a forum. Both sides ALWAYS have the right to say what they feel needs to be said.

Some parents said that low is not safe, as a matter of fact ALL parents have said that.
First, it's not the right poster I was responding to that you are quoting.

Yes, they do have the right, but it seems like they are highjacking. Have you seen the OP since page 2? Cause I haven't..... When the OP doesn't come back, and the tread is being hijacked, it needs to stop, and a new thread should be started.

[Skyefire]

I Agree with Lee, I have not seen anything written by Moco98 or ADHDiabetic Mom, that was out of line or nor would I have taken offenise to any of there post, on this subject. They are 2 people here with some kind of inside experience on this camp and how it is run. I believe everyone has a right to speak there mind and help as much they can. As parents we all can get very easily stressed at situations, and emotions run high very quickly. I have had it happen to me as well many times. I as a parent was glad to see the post from both ladies. I do feel that Moco98 and ADHDiabetic Mom, where treated harshly at times by some of the posts, and this is why I am posting. I do think that we should sometimes stop and think before we post, give a min to reread a few posts and make sure it sounds the same as we read it orginally. Sometimes I have even left a thread and came back to it later, to have a fresh start. Most times not posting at all, because after reading it again with new upated posts there is no need to. I have myself, posted quickly then needed to edit, because I jumped to quick without reading ahead or re reading it. I am not saying in anyway, that I think anyone on the site was being harsh to be rude or to hurt someones feelings...far from it. :cwds:

I do agree that there is a bigger picture that we are not seeing, with her care and the lows are WAY to low, and I would not be happy with the answer I was given, by the staff. Without knowing all the information you can not feel comfortable knowing your child is safe. No matter how great the camp is.

I hope it was just an adjustment time and she is having a great time at the camp and Mom was now given the detailed information she needs to make the experience a good one, for both of them.

I look forward to seeing an update on here, and truly hope it is good news.

[hawkeyegirl]

I agree with Lee. I also don't see any hijacking here. I thought every post was on topic. What would the topic of the new thread be? Share your views on Camp Sweeney?

Anyway, I thought moco and ADHDiabetic Mom were very helpful, and did their best to reassure that OP that in their experience, the camp was very well run. Seems to me that this thread is a lot more helpful to the original poster WITH their input, than a string of posts that just said, "OMG!!!!! How awful!!!! I'd yank my kid out of that camp immediately!!!!!"

[selketine]

I don't have a problem with anyone's posts - I think they're all good.

I do think that if they are bolusing for a &%$# cupcake then the kid should either 1) get a cupcake or 2) get another baked treat if they are allergic or 3) not get bolused for the cupcake!!!! This cupcake wasn't an extra unbolused after dinner thing to keep them up - it was a planned part of the meal and they didn't seem to have an acceptable substitute.

I just find this personally annoying since my type 1 son has a severe peanut/tn allergy. I don't expect others to get it unless they have that experience. It sounded to me like her daughter got the tabs out of necessity rather than choice (they didn't have a substitute but had bolused her for the cupcake).

Where do they get a 15 carb cupcake? That's a tiny cupcake!

Maybe the OP has gone to get her daughter? Anyway...I hope it all works out.

[moco89]

Where do they get a 15 carb cupcake? That's a tiny cupcake!

Maybe the OP has gone to get her daughter? Anyway...I hope it all works out.

The cupcake is only offered for one night out of the three week session (carnival night), out of all of the summers I have been there. Somebody earlier got confused and associated the cupcake and the cookie-15g (dance nights when there are two "active" activities in the same night) as the same snack.

The cupcake is 30 grams. It is accounted for w/ insulin. There are also campers w/ celiac, so there was/would of been an alternative snack available, no matter what. The camp is very accommodating for any sort of medical problem, and there are always alternative sources of carbs available. Also, all of the counselors in the cabin and the med staff have lists that they are required to learn in regards towards food allergies and medication allergies. That is a safety issue they always take seriously.

This Friday was pickup day for the three-week session. Activities ended last night.

I wouldn't of posted this just to stay off of this thread in general, but I wanted to tell you how this works out. I know food allergies are important to you. :)

[selketine]

I wouldn't of posted this just to stay off of this thread in general, but I wanted to tell you how this works out. I know food allergies are important to you. :)

Heh - you can tell I'm more upset about the cupcake than the low blood sugars - yep! My priorities are in the right place - LOL! ;) Thanks for the clarification.
I think your experience is very interesting and insightful. It is not the perspective a parent might have but there is nothing wrong with that. :)

[Heather(CA)]

Wow, I just read this...I would totally be freaking out. I would call back too and ask for someone that didn't have their head up their you know what:eek:!

I wouldn't be headed to pick her up though...Hopefully they saw what was ahppening and lowered all her insulin that night? Is that what happened? Have you talked to anyone?

[jendean]

At the camp where I volunteer, we make basal rate changes as soon as kids come there.
Call the camp, tell them about the letter you got, and relax.
If it is a good camp, they are not going to let harm come to your child.
(though is is scarey to hear about, because you cant do anything from so far away-- bgs in the 40s are rarely harmful, especially if they are treated.

[ADHDiabetic Mom]

Yes, they do have the right, but it seems like they are highjacking. Have you seen the OP since page 2? Cause I haven't..... When the OP doesn't come back, and the tread is being hijacked, it needs to stop, and a new thread should be started.

Again, I didn't mean to hijack, but I've already explained that and apologised.

As for not hearing from the OP, :D today was check-out day. I'm sure she's been at Camp Sweeney picking up her daughter. I was only gone three hours because we live relatively close, but she may have had to travel a lot farther.

(And besides, that, she probably has her priorities a lot straighter than I have mine, so she's probably off seeing her girl instead of hanging out in cyber-space!) ;)

I can only imagine her expression when she comes back here and sees this thread! :eek:

:D