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Evansdad
05-06-2008, 05:06 PM
Pardon my post but as you will read I am stresseD..

Before you go any farther Evan is okay.

So I get a phone call this afternoon from the school nurse, that she had to do the Heimlich on my son today in the nurses office. " WTF " I in a panic ask what happened she says Evan came to the office with low sugar so to correct it she gave him a choice of smarties or lifesavers and some water per our health plan. Well he choose lifesavers and she told him to drink some water as he was eating candy and he swallowed the lifesaver WHOLE it got lodged in his throat and he could not breath, so she did the Heimlich , and he was able to breath BUT it was still stuck so instead of calling 911 she calls us to come get him! She goes on to explain on phone for us to take him to doctor to remove the candy.

My wife and I get in car to go to school about 10 minutes driving normal I made it in 5 as we were driving I called his doctor to get him in and the nurse puts me on hold after I tell her this and she comes back and says the school should call 911 ,he needs to go to hospital to have it removed and also it would be bad if he was in car and something happened to it and it blocked his airway again.

So I call school and get hung up on 2 times finally get a hold of nurse I tell her to call 911 now, she says he was able with water to swallow it and he wanted to go back to class so we are almost there I hang up.

We walk into school first hug my child still mad ,upset and crying pick him up grab his bag and told the nurse he MIGHT be at school tomorrow.

As we are walking out of the office the principal is shoving a cupcake in her mouth unaware of anything never says a word to us. Let me tell you I am so angry words can not describe how I feel and I don't know what to do , who to tell , what to say...We took all candy from school he is only to be corrected from low sugar now by juice box and I will have health plan changed that any medical emergency that bad 911 must be called first right now it says only if he is under 40 or not alert.

I hate to point fingers the nurse luckily did the right thing and new what to do but if the candy was stuck still she should have called 911 after she got him breathing.

My thought is and I don't understand why if candy was still stuck why don't you call 911?????


Look forward to your replies
Allen

JacksonsMom
05-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Unbelievable! First of all I am so glad to hear that Evan is O.K. How scary that must have been for you all and for him!!!! Secondly in my mind there shoudldn't have been any doubt about calling 911 especially after already having difficulty breathing from it. I really think that some people can be super book smart but have no common sense! My sons go to preschool now and we have yet to face the school nurses situation and 504 plans and all of that so I'm sure others will have advice on that aspect!

Again, glad he's O.K. and yes you for sure have had a bad day and have every right to be stressed and angry!

Caydens_Mommy
05-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Oh My.. Sorry that you are having such a rotten day.. I would def be upset with this scenerio too.. I would try calling your superintendent and telling them about the situation.. It amazes me that the principal had no idea what was going on. That's just crazy..

zell828
05-06-2008, 05:21 PM
Oh, first let me say I am glad your son is okay. That had to be a scary experience for him to be choking. :( I agree with you that the nurse should have called 911. I suppose since she thought he was breathing again that it wasn't an emergency, I don't know. You are right in changing the health plan to have call 911 put in there. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

taximom
05-06-2008, 05:29 PM
OMG!! I am so glad your son is okay. How scary! That nurse definitely should have called 911! What was she thinking?? I think you should call her district supervisor, or whoever is in charge. That is unacceptable!

shekov
05-06-2008, 05:48 PM
It seems to me that if something were blocking his airway moments ago, and was still lodged in his throat though now he was able to breathe, he would have to be monitored until it could be removed.

You should not have been called first...911 should have.
What did she plan to do if it were to slip and block his airway before you got there?
What were you supposed to do if it happened on the way to the hospital?

IF she saw it come out or was otherwise reassured that he had swallowed it I can see calling you first.

selketine
05-06-2008, 05:51 PM
Wow!

Well....where to start? She should have told someone to call 911 *while* she was doing the heimlich on your son. Then this *other* person should have called you.

I think what she did was such a danger to your child - and it really has nothing to do with diabetes. His airway was blocked and that could happen to any child at school. Then she knew the lifesaver was still in there!

I have read a lot of issues with a lot of kids with a lot of nurses but I think this one goes WAY past the "let's talk it out" stage. That nurse should be completely removed from not only this school but from school nursing. I think there must be some way to file a complaint that would have her handling of this situation investigated.

I'm glad your son is o.k. I rarely talk about it but William also had something similar happen to him - with a smartie type candy. He was too young to be in school and it is a long story. But there is NOTHING that scares me more than to think about that - and seeing him not being able to breathe. He is lucky I don't pre-chew his food for him....

BrendaK
05-06-2008, 05:53 PM
I don't think I can add a whole lot else. Except that I would not have a nurse who can't handle a choking problem to be taking care of my son's diabetes. Choking 101 is to call 911 if there is a lifesaver lodged in a child's throat. DO NOT call the parents!!!! Even my first grader knows to call 911 in that kind of a situation!

I am SO SORRY!!!

toohughey
05-06-2008, 05:54 PM
Bad, bad, bad nurse. I am sorry for the big scare you had. I don't know how you could ever trust her again!!

TRACY

thebestnest5
05-06-2008, 06:08 PM
I am so glad that he is OK. How terrifying!

Omgosh!! The nurse definitely should have hollered out for someone to called 911 while she was doing the Heimlich manuever. I would be quite upset with a nurse that couldn't handle that situation. What if she was having trouble dislodging the candy with the Heimlich? When would she have asked for someone to call 911? In a situation like that time should not be wasted getting 911 moving!

selketine
05-06-2008, 06:08 PM
This is really bugging me.

I have found the State of Ohio guidelines for emergency management at school here: http://www.schoolhealth.org/content/Emergency%20Guidelines%20for%20Schools%202-2007.pdf

On page 7 of that PDF is when to call EMS - and choking is one - blocked airway, etc.

Page 43 deals with choking - and clearly says to call EMS even if the child is breathing - and the very FIRST thing is to call EMS after starting rescue procedures.

In our state there are nursing guidelines online as well - these guidelines are intended for schools without nurses or when the nurse is not present. I would think they apply to the nurse as well - as part of good judgment. It would be interesting to see the nursing guidelines for Ohio.

Mom2rh
05-06-2008, 08:08 PM
Oh my! How scary! I'm glad he was OK.

I'm thinking there needs to be a better protocol in the school for choking! :eek:

Sallysweets
05-06-2008, 08:41 PM
Just to let you know I understand why you are upset but, my daughter was choking on a jaw breaker once and I called 911 and they didn't send anyone they told me to calm down (yea right my child is choking) give her some water and wait for it to melt. They said it would melt before an emt could there and a child can't really choke on hard candy because it will always melt. BUT I still wouldn't be happy with the nurse for the way she handled it she wasted time calling you instead of helping him!

selketine
05-06-2008, 09:06 PM
They said it would melt before an emt could there and a child can't really choke on hard candy because it will always melt.

If the candy is obstructing the airway then the child can choke on hard candy - see this from an FDA article:

In May 2005, two young girls in New York City died after choking on hard candy. The girls, ages 4 and 5, choked on jumbo mint balls, round peppermint candies measuring a little more than three-quarters of an inch in diameter.http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2005/505_choking.html

It is always a good reminder not to give the little ones (babies, preschoolers) hard candies or glucose tabs to correct lows. Older kids should be o.k. but anyone could get their airway blocked by something like this.

Gwyn
05-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Did the nurse call you because she thought you would keep him from choking again or because she was afraid he would go too low due to all the commotion and not "eating" the candy and didn't know what to do?

I would guess the latter.

Not sure where that leaves you--she obviously didn't give your child the assistance he needed either way--but just wanted to add my two cents.

Thank goodness it is almost summer!!!!!

Judy&Alli
05-06-2008, 10:03 PM
Wow! I'm glad your son is ok. I am angered at the whole thing but what the hell kind of principal does not know that a student is choking??????? Our principal is the first one notified of any serious medical incident. She must make the call to the parents after 911 is called of course. I think it is horrible that she was eating a cupcake while your family was in crisis! What a disgrace! I'm so sorry that you had to go through this!!
Judy

jendean
05-06-2008, 10:32 PM
If the child is breathing, and the airway is patent, what you want to do is get the candy out. The purpose of going to the doctor is to find out if the candy is in his lung. In this case, the candy could cause aspiration pneumonia. Possible trauma to the airways. I dont know how she knew it was still stuck in there without an Xray...
She sounds like she lacks some communication skills.
If your child had a patent airway, and his sugar came up, they did the right thing by insisting on medical care. But... she could have explained that better, and the principal could have tried a little harder to look compassionate, rather than worrying about eating a cupcake in front of a diabetic child. you shoulda smacked the cupcake out of her hand.

Evansdad
05-06-2008, 10:42 PM
My email to principal and superintendent .

Before you read this email we want you to know how pleased we have been with the care Evan has gotten from Laureen Carter & Chris Ungar until today 5/6/08

For those who do not know Evan was diagnosed with diabetes on 2/22/08 and has to be continuously monitored at school and home for low and high blood sugars.

I received a phone call this afternoon from the school nurse Chris, that she had to do the Heimlich on my son today in the nurses office. Panicked, I asked what happened she tells me Evan came to the office with low sugar so to correct it she gave him a choice of smarties or lifesavers and some water per our health plan. Well he choose lifesavers and she told him to drink some water as he was eating the candy and he swallowed the lifesaver WHOLE it got lodged in his throat and he could not breathe, so she did the Heimlich , and he was able to breathe BUT it was still stuck so instead of calling 911 she calls us to come get him! She goes on to explain on phone for us to take him to doctor to remove the candy. Was the principal even notified of any of this occurring? Could you please clarify what happened and what the proper procedure is for handling a choking/obstructed airway.

State of Ohio guidelines for emergency management at school Click here see page seven

My wife and I get in car from work to go to school about 10 minutes driving normal we made it in about 5 as we were driving I called his doctor to get him in and the nurse puts me on hold after I tell her this and she comes back and says that the DOCTOR was shocked and that the school should call 911 immediately , he needs to go to hospital to have it removed and also it would be bad if he was in car and something happened to it and it blocked his airway again.

1. We should not have been called first...911 should have first and another person should have called us.
2. What did she plan to do if it were to slip and block his airway before we got there?
3. What were we supposed to do if the candy moved on the way to the hospital?


So I call school and get disconnected twice finally get a hold of nurse I tell her the doctors office says to call 911 now, she says he was able with water to swallow it and he wanted to go back to class so we are almost there I hang up.

We walk into school first hug EVAN, still mad , upset, confused and almost crying pick him up grab his bag and I mumbled to the nurse " he MIGHT be at school tomorrow."

Let me tell you , I am so angry words can not describe how I feel and I don't know what to do , who to tell , what to say...We took all candy from school he is only to be corrected from low sugar now by juice box and please have his health plan changed to reflect that . Please also add any medical emergency 911 must be called first , right now it says only if he is under 40 bgl or not alert.

I hate to point fingers at this unfortunate accident , Chris luckily did the right thing and knew what to do " thank god " but if the candy was still stuck she should have called 911 after she got him breathing. Evan did tell her the candy was still stuck in his throat after the Heimlich .

Our thoughts are and we don't understand why if candy was still stuck in his throat why don't you call 911 that is what it is there for?????


We look forward to this getting resolved asap.

Allen & Penny

deafmack
05-06-2008, 10:50 PM
I would be mad too. What would have happened if the lifesaver had gone into his lungs? That is always a 911 call thing. In that kind of situation I would always call 911 first and then call the parents second. I don't blame you for being miffed.

Flutterby
05-06-2008, 10:59 PM
WOW.. first, I am so glad that your son is OK!!! How freakin scary.. and second.. yes, that stupid nurse should have called 911.. actually while she was doing the heimlic she should have been screeming for someone to call 911.. that piece of candy could have gotton stuck very easily.. and I'm sure your son was NOT happy to have a piece of rather large candy stuck in his throat.. how painful..

did you end up taking him into the dr.. I would be sure that the principal knows about this asap.. and that the nurse knows to call 911 in any situation like that again!

unbelievable..

MySweethearts
05-06-2008, 11:20 PM
oh my gosh!!!!! I would be beside myself with anger. I am so sorry this happened to your son and I am glad he is okay now. Luke choked on a lifesaver once a couple of years ago and my husband did the heimlich on him too, it flew out of his mouth. You would think the nurse would know better. :confused:

Sallysweets
05-06-2008, 11:55 PM
If the candy is obstructing the airway then the child can choke on hard candy - see this from an FDA article:

In May 2005, two young girls in New York City died after choking on hard candy. The girls, ages 4 and 5, choked on jumbo mint balls, round peppermint candies measuring a little more than three-quarters of an inch in diameter.http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2005/505_choking.html



Good to know that whoever picked up the phone when I dialed 911 was wrong :eek:..glad my daughter was ok.

lulu
05-07-2008, 12:43 AM
Oh my goodness! That was quiet a scare. I am sure you have heard this but...


he is only to be corrected from low sugar now by juice box

My dd has told me when she is low...she has a difficult time swollowing. That could be why your son was choking.

I am thankful your son is alright!

Evansdad
05-07-2008, 09:02 AM
Principals reply

I know you are upset about this incident and I understand. I know that Chris works in an emergency room and is aware of proper procedures and feels that she did the right thing. I am very thankful she was here at the time. I was actually not aware that anything had happened until after you left with Evan. I will check on the correct protocol for something like this and get back with you. Unfortunately I am at a conference today and will not be in the building, but will try to contact you later this afternoon.

Pam


This is me typing below


Wonder why the nurse did not tell anybody? Don't you thinks she would have told somebody! We also did not allow him to go to school today till this gets resolved....

Thoover
05-07-2008, 09:16 AM
I am so glad your son is OK. I would have been a wreck myself.. And for the Nurse not to call 911.. Would have made me livid.. I believe I would have called 911 if the nurse wouldn't from the car on the drive there to have them at the school ASAP.. Why the nurse would call you first and not 911 is unacceptable to me. Let us know the outcome when the Principle gets back to the school..

Michele's Mom
05-07-2008, 09:50 AM
I would definitely keep son home today after the tramatic day yesterday. I would be getting new instructions for school. Then calling superintendent of schools. Then calling principal about the kind of nurse she has on board and your concerned for other kids needs with what she put your kid through. And then let all moms know with kids in area also bout incident. New Nurse for that school for sure is needed.

Michele when she was in 2nd grade went down to 15 her sugar her eyes rolled in back of her head. The nurse was so sweet and grabbed a juice with straw and put it down her throat and nurse waited nothing else mattered then the childs well being. She said when Michele called her name it was the best sound she has ever heard and was grateful Michele was ok. She was an awesome Nurse. Every school should have 1 of her.

I am so glad Evan is ok. Go Evan..... God is Watching over all our Children with all they go through. So glad i was introduced to here. Hugs to you all.

Micheles Mom
HAGD all.:cwds:

Lee
05-07-2008, 09:51 AM
I read this last night - and got so upset I decided to think about it awhile before I posted :mad:!

First, no hard candy is a good rule - glad you got it all out.

Second, taking the D out of this - if any child has a medical emergency, then 911 should be called each and every time.

I used to be a CPR/Emergency trainer while I was in the Air Force - I trained two things this nurse missed - and this was per guidelines - not things I just pulled out of my a$$!

1. You do the Heimlich until the object is removed from the mouth - it could get re-lodged in the airway ( edited to add: I am not 100% sure about this if he was able to cough - the Heimlich is designed to mimic a cough - if he could cough - I would have instructed him to do that until it came out).

2. Any person that has had the maneuver done on them needs to be seen by a doctor immediately after the event. Why the nurse may ask? Because, miss idiotic nurse, you are applying extreme force to a delicate, small area - it would be very easy to do internal damage to bone, cartilage, and internal organs...we tend to naturally do the Heimlich over the sternum - even though we should do it lower - this can be damaged and actually lacerate the surrounding organs - so, according to emergency procedure -in the very least she should have called 911 and had him transported to the hospital to cover her tushy from a malpractice lawsuit if any damage had been done.

Michele's Mom
05-07-2008, 09:56 AM
She knows exactly how you feel????? ummm no she don't. And sticking up for that nurse and what she did with your child. Unbelievable. Hmmm and today is Nurses Day. Think i'd call a Lawyer just to see what they would say bout this incident. Free Consultation.

Hugs,
Micheles Mom

And to think we send our kids to school thinking they will be safe.....

selketine
05-07-2008, 10:31 AM
Good to know that whoever picked up the phone when I dialed 911 was wrong :eek:..glad my daughter was ok.

Was your child able to breathe at all (talk, etc)? Sometimes things aren't blocking the airway. I'm still surprised the 911 call person told you to wait it out.

AJ - I think there was some good advice given by medical professionals so I'd go with that. Also I think I sent this in a PM to you but the nurses for the schools sometimes (all the time? I don't know) go through a different county/state agency and have different supervisors. It is that way in our county - we have School Health Services. The principal would know how to contact them but when I have a question I usually go directly to the nursing supervisor if needed.

I think it would be reasonable to have this incident investigated - as to what the nurse thought happened and what others thought should be done.

I hope you get some action on it either way.

momtojess
05-07-2008, 10:36 AM
This whole thing frustrates me. I was always under the impression that if someone had the heimlich done to them, they needed to be checked out. ( Like the others have posted).. not to mention if the object was still in his throat,it would be an emergency.

I dont care for the principals reply. Who cares that she works in the ER.. Obviously as an ER nurse if she is seeing people int here for choking, then she should have known that is was a situation for 911.

Good luck with your conversation with the principal this afternoon. I also agree with the other poster to go the the nursing supervisor too.

madde
05-07-2008, 10:54 AM
Wow this post is really disturbing to me. I would've been furious and am for you guys. I mean come on, common sense would tell you to call 911. And the other thing didn't he come in feeling low. That in itself could've potentially became an emergency if he was unable to get something for his bs.

This whole situation is completely unacceptable. The nurse should definitely be reported.

I really CAN'T BELIEVE how this whole situation was handled. So inappropriate.

On the brighter side I am SO GLAD your son is ok. And I am sure you will make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

Burlew
05-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Thank God he is OK!


There are sooo many things that could have gone wrong that may have not been apparent at the time.....like broken ribs....swollen windpipe. Hemorrhaging in the area that candy was stuck. She needs to revisit her CPR and first aid courses. Sounds like she did not follow any of the rules!


I am so very sorry you had to go through this. I would talk in detail with the nurse go step by step with what happened and why she made the choice to handle it the way she did.

I am still puzzled as to what in the hell she was thinking.:mad:

3js
05-07-2008, 02:32 PM
First, I am so glad your child is ok. BUT, omgosh, I would be in tears over this/so mad. Staying home today was probably a safe call. I hope you end up with satisfactory resolution, and not just that lousy email reply!

Heather(CA)
05-07-2008, 02:47 PM
I am so happy Evan is OK:eek:

When the boys were younger and I had a babysitter over, the first thing I would ask them is...If something happens, who are you going to call? If they said me, I said wrong answer. You would be suprised though, most of them said 911. You would think a nurse would know that:rolleyes: Maybe her ER training has caused yet another case of too big for her britches???:mad: I have seen our school nurse (even ran with her down the hall) Yell to call 911 when she wasn't even sure what was wrong yet. Like someone already said, that's what their there for.

Tripletmommy
05-07-2008, 06:20 PM
I"m so glad he's OK! I can't even believe what I'm reading!!! I think you should go as high up to whomever is in charge as you can (superintendent or board or something) and tell them that the entire faculity needs to have CPR/first-aid training recertification! There is NO reason whatsoever that the nurse could not have yelled for someone to call 911 while she was helping your son! And anyone with CPR and firstaid training knows the rules "check - call - care" Thats just as simple as it is!

Im so sorry you guys even have to be dealing with this! I'm glad Evan is alright though!

Jencaz23
05-07-2008, 06:47 PM
how terrifying!! I would be totally crazy angry. I would raise a big stink so anything like that never happens again. I can't believe she didn't call 911!

Bsbllmom
05-07-2008, 07:11 PM
First let me say that I am so glad Even is ok. That is terrifying.

I think any time a child is choking, or adult for that matter, 911 should be called. One time we had a student eating like he hadn't eaten in a week. You know just stuffing his mouth with food. Well he started choking and one of the ladies in the cafeteria just grabbed him and did the heimleich (sp?) In the meantime the office was calling 911. Well the boy was ok and he took of to play and no one noticed because the cafeteria lady was having an insulin reaction and passed out. So all of our attention was on her. When the ambulance got there they were working on her and ask for the student. They wanted to make sure that he was breathing ok. So we called him in and they checked him out. They said that anytime a child chokes to call them even though we get the airway clear.

czardoust
05-07-2008, 08:25 PM
im glad he's ok. Maybe the nurse thinks that partial airway obstruction is ok???? :confused: Im sorry she is such a ditz. :(

Wendy12571
05-07-2008, 11:25 PM
First of all. This is why I HATE lifesavers. We were on a girl scout trip before I was diagnosed with diabetes. One of the girls got a lifesaver stuck in her throat. I only remember how scary this was. The hole in the lifesaver does allow for the air to go through, but still has got to be scary. The other issue is the Heimlich manuever won't work on a lifesaver thanks to the darn hole. They should have had your son continue to drink water to get the lifesaver to dissolve.

jwk's mom
05-07-2008, 11:28 PM
OMG You would think that a school nurse would know better. I would most certainly raise a stink with the school system.