Juvenille Arthritis, autoimmune diseases and on and on

[mom to a sports nut]

My 'normal' 11 year old son has been having night sweats and chest joint paint, near his ribs and sternum, for a while. We went to the docs today and he is running a sed rate to check for inflammation from arthritis. I thought 'no way' Then I began wondering if arthritis is an autoimmune disease also and, even if it isn't diabetes, if one child has a a/i disease are the other children in a family more likely to get one even if it isn't 'd'???

[EmmasMom]

Unfortunately, yes. Anyone with a close relative that has an AI disease is at greater risk than the general public to have one as well.

I have been doing a lot of research on juvenile arthritis recently and I haven't seen those symptoms listed as early indicators for any of the primary types of JRA, or JA as it's now called.
Did the doc give you any insight into exactly what kind of arthritis he's worried about?
There are hundreds of diagnostic possibilities that fall under the care of a rheumatologist, and JA is an "umbrella" term so maybe he's just calling it that when it's actually a specific condition.

I'd suggest doing some reading about rheumatic diseases. The book, It's Not Just Growing Pains: A Guide to Childhood Muscle, Bone and Joint Pain, Rheumatic Diseases, and the Latest Treatments by Thomas J. A. Lehman (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-8374193-7634444?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Thomas%20J.%20A.%20Lehman) , is a great resource.

I really hope you find some answers! Rheumatic disease are often difficult to dx's, and as we're currently learning, difficult to treat.

Best of luck! I hope it's nothing!:cwds:

[jendean]

Juvenile rheumatoid arthritis is indeed an autoimmune disease.
Sadly, the treatment for it usually includes steriod therapy, and that will raise bg levels.
If you have one autoimmune disease you are more likely to have or develop others.
No fun.
I will keep you all in my prayers. I hope for the best for you! :cwds:

[ROVERT81402]

My mom has rheumatoid arthritis and Thyroid. I remeber when we were in the hospital, when Trevor was dxd, when they ask you all those questions about the patient's medical history. My MIL said, "well, we don't have any of that in our family, it must all come from your mother" I looked at my hubby and said, "Huh, I guess maybe you should have researched my genes before we got married!"
Anyways, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I hope everything comes back ok with your son.{{{HUGS******

[My_Dana]

Juvenile rheumatoid arthritis is indeed an autoimmune disease.
Sadly, the treatment for it usually includes steroid therapy, and that will raise bg levels.


My niece has JRA. At 13yrs old is (or was, not sure) on steroids.
She started taking the Mona Vie juice daily and got considerable relief.
I don't see her too often to assist more, unfortunately.

If you look outside the box a bit on this one, you'll find some very interesting things. The steroids are only covering the symptoms of the real cause. Believe it or not, I have seen that arthritis symptoms can be caused from diet. Mainly reactions to certain food triggers. Not all cases, but certainly enough to warrant a thorough look at alternatives.

I deal with an alternative doctor that has treated many with RA and JRA and claims there's no such thing as an "auto-immune disease". By that he means, the body is simply not designed to attack itself. Rather, such a disease is a tightly coupled reaction to something that triggers an attack within tissues and organs that appear to be attacking self. Could a virus really "reprogram" the body's immune system to cause permanent confusion? I don't know for sure. It does get me back to my theory that it is usually something external (or imbalance) that causes diseases. Thinking from this perspective can open new possibilities of treating things.
Something to think about.

Anyway...

It is very possible that JRA can be a triggered reaction. Not necessarily a food allergy. Let's call it a reaction right now, that can develop when larger than normal food particles getting through the intestinal walls and into the bloodstream. Then the body mounts a defense and antibodies get developed. Depending on where the reaction within settles, you can have things like Lupus, Crohns, or arthritis if in the joints. A flare up can be an immediate or delayed response to that trigger, thus making it even more difficult to find.

How does this happen? Inflammation in the intestines usually caused by something. Could be use of anti-biotics and the killing of good bacteria. Could be a wheat or dairy problem or any other food irritation (intolerance). This is basically what IBS is. An inflamed intestine letting large food particles into the bloodstream, causing all sorts of seemingly non-related problems.

Here's some ideas I hope can help you -
1. Analyze EVERY food item. Begin by eliminating one by one all common food culprits. Wheat, dairy, nuts... I would say a few week should show signs of improvement if it is the possible trigger. But this time may vary depending on severity and flare up frequencies. Could be a particular chemical in something. Really look.

1. Again, good steady probiotics can help in this department to combat absorption issues.

2. JRA is an inflammation problem like nearly all diseases so natural anti-inflammatorys can help. Lots of fish oil. And taking pancreatic digestive enzymes BETWEEN meals. Enzymes when taken on an empty stomach have an anti-inflammatory affect. But you need high potency and lots of them. They have lots other benefits as well.

3. There may be some other things that I can't think of right now. But I'll add to this post as I find.

If nothing else, the above suggestions may help you reduce the symptoms and steroidal use, which we all no is a very bad long term solution.
KEEP LOOKING AND TRYING!

Good Luck!

[Brensdad]

Juvenile rheumatoid arthritis is indeed an autoimmune disease.
Sadly, the treatment for it usually includes steriod therapy, and that will raise bg levels.
If you have one autoimmune disease you are more likely to have or develop others.
No fun.
I will keep you all in my prayers. I hope for the best for you! :cwds:


Actually, most JRA symptoms are managed with non-steriodal anti-inflammatories, or NSAIDs such as Mobic and Celebrex.

[lisalotsamom]

Our Tessa was diagnosed with JRA at 16 mos, and then Type 1 diabetes at 18 mos. The JRA was treated with Naprosyn until she was in remission about 2 years ago.
She is now also on Synthroid for hypothyroidism, so the little sweetie has been hit hard by autoimmune problems.
I keep a close eye on our other kids for all of these things, and tell my relatives to do the same, since there is usually some genetic component involved.
Also to watch out for....celiac disease. Fairly often it pops up with diabetes. Fun, right?

[jendean]

Danas dad,
You have a really good point in your post there.
I agree about steriods. But, often they are all that works.
Use of NSAIDS (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are a much more acceptable option ..... for a while, until you suffer the damage they they do over time as well.

Unfortunately when you look at NSAIDS, you also are looking into damage to the lining of the stomach... or in another case.... the liver.


I also agree that the body is not designed to attack itself.
However, a virus can cause a body to do this by penetrating normal cells, or attaching itself. Kind of like a wolf in sheeps clothing if you will.

It can go by unnoticed.

Some theories suggest that it is a predisposition since we can have twins that have the same virus, (identical twins) and only one comes out of it in renal failure with high blood sugars.

Either way, I think you have some really interesting points there.

I stopped trying to figure out "why" a long time ago. But I still like to hear theories.
I think its something environmental that causes certian kids to react differently than others.

Its all I can come up with.

Sorry for the hijack.
:cwds:

[EmmasMom]

I deal with an alternative doctor that has treated many with RA and JRA and claims there's no such thing as an "auto-immune disease". By that he means, the body is simply not designed to attack itself. Rather, such a disease is a tightly coupled reaction to something that triggers an attack within tissues and organs that appear to be attacking self. Could a virus really "reprogram" the body's immune system to cause permanent confusion? I don't know for sure.

If type 1 diabetes doesn't convince you that the bodies immune system can be permanently reprogrammed to destroy self... what would? It doesn't really matter what the initial trigger was, once it happens there is no way to stop the attack.

Celiac disease is a bit different since you can actually remove the trigger, but few other AI diseases have clear cause that can be simply removed from the body.
My daughter has a variety of AI issues that started before the introduction of any solid foods or any illness and she never received any antibiotics until well after her dx's. I had a perfect pregnancy, natural delivery and breastfed exclusively until her D symptoms started at 7 months, (she wanted more milk than I could produce at that point).
The antibodies that caused her T1D were obviously present from early in her infancy and her antibodies for Crohn's disease were at very high levels by her first birthday. Her JRA symptoms started as soon as she began walking and have gradually worsened ever since.

I have serious doubts in any doctor who claims that these issues can be prevented or reversed with dietary modification and supplements. It's simply impossible to reverse this type of autoimmune disease in this way. You may be able to help the symptoms, like for example how eating no carbs and exercising frequently can improve glucose control and reduce the need for insulin, but it won't change the disease.

There is also a big difference between IBD (inflammatory bowel disease) and IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). One is a "reaction" that can be controlled with dietary changes, and the other is a group of true AI diseases that should be treated aggressively if you want to live a long, healthy life.

The bottom line is... Emma's immune system was clearly designed to attack self from the very beginning and there is nothing that we could've done differently to stop it from happening.

I have great respect for alternative medicine, and I have two chiropractic doctors in may family that are a great help in other areas, but there is nothing they can do to reverse AI disease. I have an aunt with RA who happens to be married to one these holistic docs, (my favorite uncle :)) and after two years of trying every possible alternative, (including flying herbs in from china, doing complete dietary cleanses, etc) she finally started using conventional meds to treat her RA. She finally has her disease under control on methotrexate, a chemotherapy drug, and is finally able to move on with her life. Talk about an alternative med reality check!;)

[My_Dana]

I must say I'm impressed with is the vast and diverse knowledge base people have on this forum. I have learned a lot here.
Great exchange of ideas!


JenDean -
"I also agree that the body is not designed to attack itself.
However, a virus can cause a body to do this by penetrating normal cells, or attaching itself. Kind of like a wolf in sheeps clothing if you will."
You made some very interesting observations. In particular, the fact that viruses penetrate normal cells. I would like to elaborate on the point...

I realize as EmmasMom points out that I should be convinced the immune system is permanently rewired in T1.
I am.
Well sort of.
This is what I believe is happening.

As JenDean pointed out, a virus is really a strand of RNA/DNA that penetrates and takes over a cell. It needs the cell to survive. In the case of T1 it's beta cells.
So now we have a "foreign" beta cell. The million dollar question is why the pancreas? Or joints (RA)? Or intestine (celiac/Crohns)?
In any event, the immune system goes into action, develops an antibody to kill the entrenched virus-cells where ever they are.

In T1 the beta cells are attacked by the new antibodies by actually killing/disabling the whole cell that is virus infected.
I would suggest this is not a haywire response, but a controlled attack of infected, invaded cells. Sort of a self sacrifice of a cell to rid the virus.
This hypothesis seems more logical to me than a "tripping and running" viral infection to start the whole process.

In RA, we typically have flares, and remission. This process alone implies to me something brings on a flare. Doesn't sound like a completely random event.
Different than the linearly increasing beta cells destruction.

Here's a case to back up my explanation.
My sister has had RA and fibromyalgia for about 15 years. She was taking meds daily to kill the pain. Very disgusted and feeling lousy always. She felt there was nothing more she could do. I suggested to not give up and to keep looking. Just then a friend mentioned ReLiv powdered vitamin shake mix and she started. During the initial few months she felt even worse (she was de-toxing the medications) but then began to turn a corner at about the 3 month mark. She stuck with it.

After about 10 months of 4-5 shakes a day, she takes no medication, near zero RA symptoms, and is 95% painfree and full of energy.

Cured? Maybe not. But then again, if you can live a normal life with little pain and virtually no symptoms...

[jendean]

That is of interest for sure...
I also think that there are times when Diagnosis of soem ti's are incorrect in the first place. They are diagnosing and treating sometimes only the symptoms of the real problem.

For example, cirrhosis of the liver, for years went treated the way it always was, and people died, until they found out that a lot of Europeans had what is called haemochromotosis, (high iron in the blood) particularly irish people.

The irish just became known for being drinkers who killed thier livers with alcohol...

But now we take them in for a good old fashioned bloodletting and thier livers are fine.

Haemochromotosis also damages the pancreas, causes diabetes, insulin dependence, and also causes joint inflammation.